Rollin' My Own.......

[toot]

what ever amount of paper that is left in the chamber after the last shot is expelled when the next shot is fired. simple physics.

 

[toot]

a great video, but he didn't show how to cut them out?

 

[ugly old guy]

what ever amount of paper that is left in the chamber after the last shot is expelled when the next shot is fired. simple physics.

More likely ignites the new charge if smoldering.

If the left over paper from a previous charge was in front of the new charge, it might be pushed out by the new.

Since the new charge pushes things in the chamber under it (possibly blocking the nipple) it won't be expelled but driven back to the closed end of the chamber.

Shooting will not remove any paper left in the chamber from a previous shot.
It has to be manually removed.

Drill for ML Canon:
1) WORM! (hopefully removes any left behind powder charge casing)
2) SWAB! (Wet swab to put out anything smoldering that may not have come out with the worm)
are the first two commands before putting a fresh powder charge down the barrel to prevent the fresh powder charge from going off when pushed to the breach.

Any paper used for a paper cartridge in revolver or rifle NEEDS to be nitrated.

The few I knew who used paper cartridges in a revolver used cigarette papers to make them.

Most C&B revolver shooters I know use loose powder and ball. They don't want the hassel of dealing with paper cartridges. (neither do I)

Fast Reloads?
That is what the gods allowed spare cylinders to be invented for.

Recall that the revolver was never a trooper's primary weapon.
even today a pistol is not a trooper's primary weapon.

 

[bigted]

My cig paper cartridges have always done well and I have never had one cook off from burning embers.

Speed ... my percussion revolver loading using my paper cart's load up nearly as fast or faster then unloading then loading a 1873 peacemaker. I would bet that for Colts revolvers ... my loading speed is neck in neck as fast as changing the cylinders. Remingtons will have the shade on my loading tho.

I do have some paper debris in the cylinder at the end of shooting 50 or 60 rounds but it does not appear to be a cumulative effect. Only debris in any cylinder is from a single charge. My opinion is that with the explosion of the charge ... it vacuums out whatever debris left in the chamber. Otherwise mine would collect till the spark from the cap couldn't reach the powder.

My idea is that when charging the next cartridge, there is a total absence of oxygen left to burn anything to ignite the loaded charge. I think that any smoldering leftover is smothered with the loading and compression of the powder/paper.

For fire of any kind ... you need three things ... fuel, heat and oxygen. Take away one, no fire ... therefore no unexpected or unwanted premature discharge.

I also agree that the reloads have increased in frequency in modern days. During the hayday of use, the loading frequency ... just for financial reasons as well as packing them along ... was probably measured in weeks maybe months ... not minutes. Not much practicing I bet. This is the why of 99 percent of fellers were not "bad men with the revolvers". These fellers that got proficient were far and few between.

 

[toot]

I beleave that if when loading a cartridge that went off it would be tantamount to a fire cracker going off with no bodily harm?. maybe burn and stinging to the hands.

 

[rodwha]

I beleave that if when loading a cartridge that went off it would be tantamount to a fire cracker going off with no bodily harm?. maybe burn and stinging to the hands.

Possibly. Some fellows did a test to see what a chainfire might do. 30 grns of 3F and a ball was shown to produce 7 ft/lbs of energy and it was surmised that it wouldn’t be capable of breaking the skin. That was standard Goex so maybe a more energetic powder would create 10-12?

I suppose it would depend on where in the chamber the ember is. At the base and it won’t get ignited until you are seating it. If it’s in a spot much higher then all that could happen was fire as there wouldn’t be anything to hold it to create the pressure. That might hurt I’d guess, but it wouldn’t be quite the explosion like a firecracker.

 

[flinter1977]

I use cigarette paper and if there is a ring of unburnt paper in the chamber I just flick it out with a vent pick. Paper cartridges are very nice in the winter in wi along with a ted cash capper . much easier to roll them indoors and load outside.

 

[Enfieldguy]

I'm a bit late to this thread but I have been rolling combustible revolver cartridges since the late 1970's. I too started with cigarette papers with varying results. Cig paper is a rice-based paper and while very thin it also very fragile and is treated with a flame retardant. This is to slow the rate of burn when used with tobacco. Not suitable for something that must consume itself in a fraction of a second. Using hair rolling papers seems to be something new but they seem to work fairly well when nitrated. Now for a little history. Historically, combustible cartridges were made of a linen-based paper. Wood pulp paper is a modern invention. The two have different burn characteristics. I have the best results using a 100% linen, 9lb to 13lb paper. It can be difficult to locate and cost a bit more but the results are worth it. Nitrating is easy. I'll take a quart of purified or distilled water a large Pyrex mixing cup and heat it to about 125 degrees. Heating it will help the KNO3 to dissolve easier.(I used powdered food-grade KNO3 I purchased online) I then add the KNO3 while stirring the mix. I'll add it until the water won't dissolve any more. When you see the KNO3 start to collect on the bottom you've reached maximum saturation. I then pour it into a photographic developing tray and add the sheets of paper. Before soaking I'll draw out the pattern of the cartridge bodies. I'll soak about 3 or 4 sheets at a time and make sure they're totally immersed before covering the tray with plastic wrap or aluminum foil. I'll let them soak for about 3 hours. Then I'll carefully remove them one at a time and lay them out on a flat surface on a cotton towel. When dry they're ready to use. There are several cartridge forming jigs available that work great but I still use my home-made, tapered hard-wood dowel. I use the traditional 2-piece construction method. I use no filler or wads. I'm reproducing the military 18-grain .36 rounds and the 24-grain .44 rounds. The conical Eras Gone molds are best for this. I'm not aware of any round ball combustibles ever having been produced. I lube the round like the originals. Dip the completed cartridge nose first into melted lube up to the junction of the lead and paper. I used a beeswax/mutton tallow mix of about 8:2. You can play with the ratios depending on your climate. I'm in Central Florida so I like the lube a little firmer. With these rounds it is not necessary to grease over the chamber mouths and I don't have any fouling issues. I can fire 40+ rounds without the gun fouling out. The mutton tallow is what was originally used because of it's long shelf life. It doesn't go rancid as fast as other rendered fats. I have some wax/mutton lubed rounds that are 5 years old with no issues. An earlier poster mentioned the paper rounds fired from his Brown Bess not combusting. Those rounds weren't meant to be combustible. The paper was just there to hold the ball and a measured powder charge. Ramming the paper did have a sort of patching effect but we're talking about a smooth-bore anyways. Even the later Minie and Pritchett cartridges were not considered combustible rounds though the Pritchett is a paper-patched affair.

 

[Eutycus]

If a person uses cigarette paper is it nitrated as well? And if so, how is it soaked in a solution that doesn't harm the glue?

 

[Enfieldguy]

Cigarette paper is not nitrated. It has a mild fire retardant which keeps it from burning too fast when rolled into a cigarette. Properly nitrated paper burns very briskley and sizzles. The retardant is added to the cig paper when it is manufactured. And it being fragile by nature it is nearly impossible to nitrate at home. Cig paper cartridges are also VERY fragile. They must be carried and handled like fine china. The linen paper rounds are much more sturdy.

 

[Eutycus]

Cigarette paper is not nitrated. It has a mild fire retardant which keeps it from burning too fast when rolled into a cigarette. Properly nitrated paper burns very briskley and sizzles. The retardant is added to the cig paper when it is manufactured. And it being fragile by nature it is nearly impossible to nitrate at home. Cig paper cartridges are also VERY fragile. They must be carried and handled like fine china. The linen paper rounds are much more sturdy.

Thanks you can tell I'm new at this.

 

[Eutycus]

I repeat, I'm new at this. Maybe I made the solution a little on the strong side. The dried filters have a white powdery surface to them. Carol don't appreciate the mess I leave on the couch. I'm no chemist, does this white powder do any harm?

 

[Desperate Lee]

Eutycus buddy how did you get white powder on your couch? I personally haven't nitrated any paper for cartridges. I use perm paper from Sally's and have no problem with them. Sometimes there is some paper left in a cylinder or two but i just flick them out. I am not in a fire fight so speed is not my concern. I shoot liesurely, not in a hurry. I do my rolling and charging at the kitchen table. AND OH YES i clean up my mess.
DL

 

[Eutycus]

Like I said ,I might have made the solution too strong. I didn't do any measuring just "eyeballing". When the papers dry they have a white powder on them. I suppose I could put a little more water in the mix.

 

[Desperate Lee]

From what i have read you keep adding solution to water as you stir till it starts settling to the bottom of pan. This is the point of total saturation when no more will dissolve.
DL

 

[Eutycus]

That's basically what I did, but I added a little more than what was really needed. It shouldn't hurt anything other than the waste factor, I would think?

 

[Zonie]

That's basically what I did, but I added a little more than what was really needed. It shouldn't hurt anything other than the waste factor, I would think?

No, doing what you did won't hurt a thing when it comes to mixing the saltpeter. What you did when you left white powder on the couch is another matter.

Basically, the white powder you see on the paper is just saltpeter which is fine. That paper should burn very rapidly and that after all is the goal of nitrating the paper.
It won't hurt you even if you eat some of it unless you eat too much. In fact, it has long been used as a food preservative.
It's sometimes found in hot dogs, corned beef and ham.

Despite the old wives tale, it also won't have any effect on sexual desire or prowess.

 

[Eutycus]

Hey there was no lasting harm. Vacumn cleaners can do wonders.

 

[Enfieldguy]

There is really is no waste. And you can't make the solution 'too strong'. Crystals forming on the paper is normal. Only so much will dissolve and when it starts to settle in the bottom the emulsion is ready. And when you're done just pour the remainder into a resealable container and store it in a cool, dark place. When you need to treat more paper shake it up real good and it's ready to use.

 

[.44 associate]

I have been playing at this quite a bit over the past weeks. I have tried both end papers and cigarette papers, and I have tried them nitrated and plain. I have found that the end papers work better, but I also (after several phone calls and emails) found that with regard to construction and chemical treatment, cigarette papers are all over the map. All sorts of different fibers are used in construction of the paper, and some are nitrated, some are bleached, some have other additives to speed up or slow down the burn rate, and that's not even touching on the various glues used for rolling/sealing. At this point I would argue that when we say "cigarette paper" none of us really know what we've got. So the end papers worked better than the specific brand and model of cigarette papers I used, which is a nearly meaningless statement.

Beyond that, I saw little difference between nitrated and untreated paper. It all left stuff in the chambers. I haven't quite decided how much that bothers me - but I have ordered some magician's flash paper (and the special glue apparently required to stick it together) and will report back on it.