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Restoring an extremely rare swivel-breech rifle from 1850. In desperate need of help, if anyone may be so kind! Bore is a wreck.

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GunnerAces

32 Cal
Joined
Mar 14, 2021
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Hello everyone! My current project (among the millions of other things that one constantly has to deal with) is a passion project. I'm restoring an extremely rare rifle/smoothbore muzzleloader, pictured below.

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I think she's certainly a beauty on the outside, unfortunately the inside is not so hot. I had problems immediately with the hammer refusing to go to full cock and falling randomly at half cock. It was an easy fix, just had to do some basic work on the tumbler and retaining spring. Got to brass brushing on some rust to save the patina on buttstock and trigger guard, no problems there. Barrel rotation is tight at the breech and needs no work. Not too bad, right?

But oh boy. The bore has me at a loss. I would like to clarify this first: I know some people value originality very much, but my motto is that if I can't see it I want it as perfect and new as possible. I intend to make these guns 'shootable' so that history might live on, but I preserve all original pieces (at least outwardly visible ones) and patina and such.

So anyway, I go to inspect the bore with my scope. Smoothbore barrel (16 gauge) is very nice. Very light rusting. Rifled barrel (.36 cal) is only slightly worse, light rusting most of the way, worse towards the breech but the rifling is clearly visible. Nothing I can't fix, I've done it before. But it is HELL in both barrels at the breech.

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These were some of the best photos I could take. Firing channel from the nipples is not visible, this is a crud DAM. Best I can reckon is that this is built-up at least a quarter inch thick. Either that or the entire breech is just this gunk. Got some out, it's brown/red like rust but very soft and gooey like an organic compound. Nasty stuff. What the hell is this? Is there any way to remove it? My plan already included getting all rust out the barrel ASAP, evaporust and all (INTERNALS ONLY) but this is a roadblock. Tried pushing air from the nipples out the barrel with my compressor, no luck. There's no airflow at all.

And speaking of those bastards, the nipples are a disaster. They're both chewed up.

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It's a shame because the rest of the rifle does really look good, engravings are still crisp, stock has great character and no cracks or rot, patchbox is a beautiful silver with no serious tarnish. Think my only chance with these guys is to drill them out and tap to a very slightly larger size with a modern nipple. I'd like someone else's opinion on this though before I go for it.

Well I just spewed a lot of problems out at you guys. There's a few other problems but nothing I can't handle on my own, but the bore issue and the nipple issue are new to me. Thank you very much for your time and consideration, I look forward to (hopefully) hearing back from someone.

Very Respectfully, GunnerAces

EDIT: I apologize in advance, this is my first post and I'm sorry if I've misunderstood some of the categories or rules. I've been reading these forums for a long time but never interacted before. Thanks for your patience on that matter.
 

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I recomend soaking the breech in kroil or a mixture 50/50 of acetone and automatic transmission fluid for a few days then lightly heating to remove the nipples. You might then try drilling the nipples and using a small easy out.
 
a nice looking gun and well worth the repairs. Once you have the barrels cleaned out to the point where you can evaluate them You can decide what to do next. Bobby Hoyt is capable of lining those barrels just as he would a single barrel and he had done a damascus double for me a few years ago for a reasonable price.
 
Have you tried kero or something to soften the crud?
Have you tried to remove the crud?
Never know maybe it is 150years of congealed gun oil in there.
Maybe get a brass breech scraper and go for it.
To be honest I was almost scared of compressing the gunk, but I think you're right. Seems the only course of action. I'll let you know how it goes!
 
a nice looking gun and well worth the repairs. Once you have the barrels cleaned out to the point where you can evaluate them You can decide what to do next. Bobby Hoyt is capable of lining those barrels just as he would a single barrel and he had done a damascus double for me a few years ago for a reasonable price.
Thank you for the information, I'll definitely look into it. Certainly would be well worth the investment I think.
 
UPDATE: Terrible news. Got to cleaning out the bore and finally got all the rust and such out. Ran the borescope down
It woiuld be interesting to get some details about that gun! What do you know about the history of the firearm? Fascinating piece.
All that's really known is that it was manufactured sometime in 1845-1850 by an E.W. Cook from Lockhart NY. E.W. Cook went on to organize a battalion of troops from Lockhart during the Civil War and fought for the Union. His name and Lockhart is stamped on the barrel but no year.
 
UPDATE: Terrible news as well. Went and followed advice in this thread. Scraped, evaporusted and scrubbed the bores clean. Bottom of the breech there's maybe a quarter inch or eighth inch of epoxy poured down in there. That crud on top was oil, rust and rotten patches and it scraped up real well. But epoxy! Who would do such a thing? And why? Maybe it's time to hand the barrel off to a gunsmith who can just rebore the thing and put a new breech and nipples on. I can't believe it. Is this even salvageable?
 
Epoxy is heat sensitive, so it might be able to be removed via heating it.

The temps the epoxy melts at are not high enough to effect the gun's metal.

I'd heat the breech area until the epoxy becomes gooey, and try to grab it with a brass bristle brush, repeating as req'd.
 
The epoxy is puzzling and combined with the mangled nippers, it almost seems like it was done to prevent firing and make it a wall hanger. Is there any indication the that the breach was disassembled and put back together with epoxy as a form of thread locker?

Its an interesting piece for sure but the epoxy needs to go for a good honest inspection before even thinking of putting any powder down the bore.

To remove the epoxy you could try to soften it with alcohol (isopropyl) or acetone. Just make sure to dry it out before moving on to heat heat.
 
Welcome to the forum from North Carolina.

There are others out there, but many on this forum, myself included, have experience with Bobby Hoyt for doing the type of work you are likely looking for. Reasonable and good work. Give him a call in the morning (he has no internet and is a one man shop), if he doesn’t immediately answer, try again or leave a message. Tell him what you have, and get his opinion. He can rebore or put a sleeve in the bore if necessary. Here is his contact info.

Bobby Hoyt
Freischutz Shop
2379 Mt Hope Rd Fairfield
PA 17320
ph# 717-642-6696
 
For epoxy removal a Methylene Chloride based stripper is required. Remove the barrels, as getting any M/C based stripper on the stock will damage the finish immediately. Stand them up, pour the stripper in, wait about ten minutes then use a brass breech scraper and brass brush for final removal.
 
The epoxy -and the mashed nipples suggest to me that , at some fairly recent point ,someone's kids were fascinated by this gun, dry firing it. A parent wanted to prevent them from figuring out how to fire it.
 
All hail Mr Hoyt is very clearly a most able man. I have a few barrels need doing but shipping would be a bain these days ..I feel sure he is the man to sort your problems .
Rudyard
 
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