Researching 3 ML's I forgot I had

[deadin]

This have been hiding in the back of my closet for years and I have decided to see if I can get it working.
It is some sort of a bench target rifle. It is was made with a false muzzle which, unfortunately, I don't have.
It is a mule ear (side hammer) with a land to land bore of .363. The 30" barrel measures 1.170 tapered to1.125 across the flats.
Top of the barrel is marked "C. MILLER". The left side of the barrel is marked "LOSEY & LULL"
The brass plates on the wrist are to repair or strengthen a cracked stock and appear to have been there a long time.

Any other information I can provide??

 

[Uncle Miltie]

Your rifle is a picket rifle made in NY around 1845-1855. The C. Miller is likely Cyrus Miller from Honoeye, NY who was known to make mule ear rifles. I can find no other information on another C. Miller who made mule ear rifles.

Losey and Lull made guns in Caroline NY at the same time. The likely reason for the names of both shops is one might have built the rifle and the other one made the barrel, or the other shop re-cut the barrel for the original owner. Gun cranks back then were like gun cranks today, always for an edge to win $$.

An unrifled loading muzzle can be made, along with mold, starter and patch cutter to shoot the rifle as it was done originally. But the folks who can do this work today are few and far between.

We still shoot these old guns at Canal Fulton OH. I don't know where you hail from but if you can make it there July 4th weekend there will be a few fellows there who might be of more help.

 

[OLUT]

This gun was made by the well known maker Calvin Miller of Honeoye, NY. He probably started making guns slightly before 1850 and died in 1860. Most of his guns are serial numbered. He made MANY mule ear guns in MANY configurations from single barrel to 4-barrel firearms. He, like many other gunmakers in NY State and upstate Pennsylvania, utilized barrels made by Losey & Lull of Caroline, NY. As Uncle Miltie indicated, it was made for shooting picket type bullets.

 

[64Springer]

Nice rifle.

Having that false muzzle reproduced shouldn't be difficult.

Figure out the bolt hole circle and thread pitch and you're golden.

Would take nothing for machine shop to knock it out.

 

[deadin]

Thread Pitch ??? Do you mean the TPI of the rifiling?
The four guide holes don't appear to be threaded

 

[64Springer]

Thread Pitch ??? Do you mean the TPI of the rifiling?
The four guide holes don't appear to be threaded

Yes.

And no threads is a bonus.

Just pins on the false muzzle I suppose.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Most false muzzles were made from a cutoff section of the barrel so the lands and grooves of the false muzzle matched the barrel. The four pins will have an offset so the only way the false muzzle would fit is with the lands and grooves aligned. The false muzzle would also be cone to ease the bullet or ball into the barrel.

Making a new false muzzle would be best to be a smooth cone to the groove diameter with no rifling.

 

[deadin]

Further research on another ML from the back of my closet.....

53” overall, Barrel 38” Barrel diameter: Land to land app. .295. Groove depth app. .005.

5 groove saw cut rifling. (~.30 cal? Is this unusual?) The barrel is octogon and tapered from .875 to .790. It has a silver front and fixed rear sight. Tang breech, drum nipple and is marked on top with the name “Wm Kail” This stamped three time at an angle across the top flat. (Is there some significance to this?)

The front action lock is marked ”Riddle” and has some minor scroll-work on it. All parts are numbered “#28”. There is no half-cock and the double set trigger must be set before cocking.

The stock is a standard Kentucky style half-stock with brass furniture. Pewter nose cap with brass ramrod guide in stock. Brass thimbles on underrib. Double set trigger. It has a semi-fancy oval patch box, hooked butt, semi-fancy plate on the underside of the flat bottom on butt.. There is a curved teardrop shaped escrution for the lockplate screw, a brass thumb insert on the top of the wrist and an 8 point star inlayed above the cheekrest. The brass triggerguard has a finger rest. The barrel is pinned without escrutions.

As far as I have been able to track it is that William Kail was active in the latter part of the 19th Century in Tuscarawas County, Ohio. He was born in 1824 and died around 1904. He listed himself as a Farmer in the 1860,70 & 80 census and as a Gunsmith in the 1900 census. (The 1890 census was lost)

I would appreciate any information I can get on this addition to my collection. It appears to have a shootable bore and I don’t know whether to fire it or not.

 

[Gtrubicon]

Further research on another ML from the back of my closet.....

View attachment 225622 View attachment 225623


53” overall, Barrel 38” Barrel diameter: Land to land app. .295. Groove depth app. .005.

5 groove saw cut rifling. (~.30 cal? Is this unusual?) The barrel is octogon and tapered from .875 to .790. It has a silver front and fixed rear sight. Tang breech, drum nipple and is marked on top with the name “Wm Kail” This stamped three time at an angle across the top flat. (Is there some significance to this?)

The front action lock is marked ”Riddle” and has some minor scroll-work on it. All parts are numbered “#28”. There is no half-cock and the double set trigger must be set before cocking.

The stock is a standard Kentucky style half-stock with brass furniture. Pewter nose cap with brass ramrod guide in stock. Brass thimbles on underrib. Double set trigger. It has a semi-fancy oval patch box, hooked butt, semi-fancy plate on the underside of the flat bottom on butt.. There is a curved teardrop shaped escrution for the lockplate screw, a brass thumb insert on the top of the wrist and an 8 point star inlayed above the cheekrest. The brass triggerguard has a finger rest. The barrel is pinned without escrutions.

As far as I have been able to track it is that William Kail was active in the latter part of the 19th Century in Tuscarawas County, Ohio. He was born in 1824 and died around 1904. He listed himself as a Farmer in the 1860,70 & 80 census and as a Gunsmith in the 1900 census. (The 1890 census was lost)

I would appreciate any information I can get on this addition to my collection. It appears to have a shootable bore and I don’t know whether to fire it or not.

Man I like this rifle!

 

[deadin]

According to the guy I got this from it was originally bought at a barn sale in Tuscarawas County around 20-30(?) years ago.
Never got far from home.....

 

[deadin]

Here's #3 from my closet....

31" Bbl.
~.410 land to land
1 1/8th Flat to flat barrel
Brass trigger, (no set)
Both sights dovetailed
Rear sight has a stepped elevator
No half-cock
App 12 lbs
No marks on Barrel (unless there are any under the wood)
There appears something unreadable on the lockplate
Some scratch engraving on the lock
Replaced ramrod.

Another target rifle??