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Sinner

40 Cal.
Joined
Jun 28, 2010
Messages
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I'm getting started in blackpowder again after a brief stint 25 years ago. I just made a purchase on line for a complete stock/fittings on what is described as a lyman "plains" rifle by investarms. Was reported to have had a GM barrel on it previously (modified from a TC drop-in).
MY Question: I'm torn between a .54 cal 1:60-1:70 twist @ 32-42 inches long and a .45 cal 1:20-1:32 twist. I believe the .54 rb to be about 250 grains? and the lyman 45121 mold for a conical about 475 grains. I plan on shooting fffg powder in either. I see from other topics people are shooting prb at faster twists with good accuracy, so maybe a .54 @ 1:32 or so?
I plan on hunting as well as target shoots/rendevous.
Thanks!
 
The conical really offers nothing. I'd buy the .54 1:60 from Midsouth Shooters Supply.
 
I'm wondering about a .45 conical at 475g vs. a .54 ball at about 250g. It seems to me the .45 would have a lot more impact, but am only speculating, so appreciate any input.
 
.535 ball weighs 230 gr. W/ 90-120 gr that is plenty for elk, moose and small bears. What are you planning on shooting?

Slow twist for PRBs is to keep heavy loads from stripping the rifling and usually have .012" deep grooves for same reason.
 
Hey Friend! I too live in Oregon. Beaverton. ML hunt in NE Oregon. The .54 RB will penetrate easily when compared with the .45. It wil give a MUCH Larger wound channel! Abd the RB is EASY to pour and would be a little cheaper on lead at 230 grains. Ive whacked muledeer and whitetails with my .54 and and the RB easily passes through. With, again, a MUCH larger diamiter hole then ANY .45.

I am NOT anti or oppsed to connicals (We have a VERY accomplished hunter on here, Idaho Ron, that has VERY good success with them BUT I would NOT reduce calilber size (expecially to a .45) to compensate for diamiter size. (if that made sence) :hmm: :wink:
 
Hey Sinner, that big conical won't shoot for squat out of a 1:70 twist barrel. It's too slow a twist to stabilize the bullet.

A .530 ball is about 224 grains. With 80 grains of powder you can hunt about anything you want out to 125 yards (leave the grizzlies alone though). A 50-60 grain load will make you smile on the target range.

If I were limited to only one gun (a horrible thought) it would be a .54 with a 1:70 twist barrel.
 
It sounds like you have spent way too much time shooting modern bullet guns. You have no faith- hence, I believe-not much expeience---- shooting RBs. A big .54 caliber RB will penetrate any deer you shoot from about any angle. The ball weighs more than 1/2 oz. You have to be shooting heavy 338, or .375 caliber rifle bullets to get modern bullets that heavy, and the results on shooting deer are the same- complete penetration.

Stick with the .54 and a slow twist( that 1:70" ROT barrel is a dandy) barrel and shoot round balls. Do some comparison penetration tests of your own with your favorite breechloading deer rifle. You will be delightfully surprised at the results.

There is NO commercial modern jacketed bullet that will flatten out and create a bigger hole than will happen with that .54. Those of us who shoot .58, and .62 cal. RB just have larger holes in the deer we shoot! If you want to shoot conicals in .45 caliber, you might just as well stay with shooting a .45-70 cartrige gun.
 
Semisane said:
Hey Sinner, that big conical won't shoot for squat out of a 1:70 twist barrel. It's too slow a twist to stabilize the bullet.

I do realize that the 1:70 is too slow for a conical, which is why I was thinking possibly a faster twist. I read some are enjoying success with prb in the faster twist barrels. But, me thinks I am thinking too much. I originally had my mind set on a .54 1:60-1:70 and have come back full circle. I have a conventional rifle to reach 500yds easy is so desired. Thanks for the input. I want to get back into blackpowder and the .54 roundball will be great! I'm excited to get shooting!
(How does the quote function work?!)
 
That 21" x 1" barrel is a "tad" heavy.

When you click on the quote function the comment your want to quote appears in the reply box. You should then scroll down to the bottom of that box and place your curser behine the [/quote] entry, then hit the return key and enter your comment under the quote.
 
Good decision, that 54 rb and the GM slow twist barrel is a great combination.


Sinner said:
(How does the quote function work?!)


easy, just start typing your responce AFTER the last {/quote} mark thingy
 
Sinner said:
I'm getting started in blackpowder again after a brief stint 25 years ago. I just made a purchase on line for a complete stock/fittings on what is described as a lyman "plains" rifle by investarms. Was reported to have had a GM barrel on it previously (modified from a TC drop-in).
MY Question: I'm torn between a .54 cal 1:60-1:70 twist @ 32-42 inches long and a .45 cal 1:20-1:32 twist. I believe the .54 rb to be about 250 grains? and the lyman 45121 mold for a conical about 475 grains. I plan on shooting fffg powder in either. I see from other topics people are shooting prb at faster twists with good accuracy, so maybe a .54 @ 1:32 or so?
I plan on hunting as well as target shoots/rendevous.
Thanks!

Let me preface my comments by saying I'm not prejudiced towards either approach (round ball or long ball). These are just thoughts about the 45 and 54 rifle barrels on that platform that to me deserve mentioning.

That 45 caliber rifle bullet is going to need pressure behind it to expand out to the rifling. Getting it to work could maybe be more recoil in that configuration of rifle than will be nice for snuggling up to on the bench.

FFFg might not make you happy in a 45 rifle bullet barrel. Slower burn will most likely be better for accuracy with velocity.

A typical 45 barrel will require you to size the bullets to bore diameter, swage rifling on to the bullets or get a mold to suit.

A 45 bullet that is accurate will probably not be a fast loading bullet.

A 54 conical in a 15/16" barrel is a lose-lose proposition. 3/16" isn't much wall to be loading up with a lot of powder behind a heavy conical. The lack of wall means more recoil that's bad for the rifle and the shooter. Nothing is gained over what a round ball would do at a higher velocity than the conical would reach.

For hunting 54 round ball is a reasonable compromise between extra-high velocity (like with a long barrel 50) and pure tail kicking knock down (like 58's and bigger). In a 32" or longer barrel it is pretty much the ultimate for 15/16" across the flats with black powder.

For target work a 54 round ball rifle can be loaded down to an accurate little poof.

So, said all that to say this...you'd have to be shooting a long, long ways off to go wrong with a nice off hand shooting 54 round ball rifle.
And if my assuming the 15/16" barrel is off base, you couldn't hardly go wrong with a 58.
But like everybody else in the world, I'm just one great big walking opinion, so takes my thoughts as my own.
Time for me to go to bed. G'nite.
 
Without hesitation, I would choose the 54 cal in a 32” barrel with 1/70 ROT. (GM if you can.)
Patched round ball is where it’s at.
I also prefer the 15/16”, 32” long barrel in 54 cal to the 1” but either is a fine choice.
Go for it man!
 
Sinner said:
MY Question: I'm torn between a .54 cal 1:60-1:70 twist @ 32-42 inches

I have shot both ..1 in 60 lyman shot ok..Midsouth shooters supply 117.00
..1 in 70 GM shot great!.. 190.00 Tip Curtis

Both barrels were 54 cal. the GM was 32" 15/16's

My vote GM 32" 15/16's 1 in 70 54 cal.

54 cal. round ball will leave a big impression on deer.

Gm Barrel-persuction

IMG_0929.jpg
 
I have a 50 GP and wanted a 54 1-60 so I ordered one direct from Lyman. Shoots great. You can get one of the hunter barrels from Impact with a 1-32 twist for around 140.00. Then you could have both if you wanted. These are the original ultimate switch out barrel guns that came along a long time before TC or Rossi.
 
Here is another place to check for Lyman barrels: http://www.riflemagazine.com/catalog/detail.cfm?ProductID=872 . I have obtained some out standing groups with my .54 GPR at 100 yards. This is with the factory 1 in 60" twist barrel. I can't see spending that kind of money on a Green Mountain barrel and then more to have it fit. The Lyman barrels are very accurate, a lot cheaper and ready to go. A .530 ball will take care of anything you run across....don't know about Big Foot though.... Fotget about a .45 caliber barrel. You would have to carry that heavy barrel through the woods and over those mountains. Just something to think about :v
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Is the rifle you are looking at a older plains rifle(one wedge pin)or a great plains rifle(two wedge pins)?It will make a big difference in the barrel needed.I think the older plains rifle will use a trade rifle barrel,but not absolutely sure it is the same,same length and one wedge.The great plains will use the great plains barrel of course.Just a heads up to avoid future problems with fit.
Bud
 

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