Removing Cylinder Endshake?

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AZbpBurner

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Many years ago I got an Uberti1862 Colt Pocket Revolver. Sweet looking little gun. 1st trip to the range, it wouldn't fire. Seems the nipples were too short. I installed a set of Treso Ampco, which are a little longer. Next trip to the range & only got sporadic ignition. The cylinder has enough play that the hammer strike would push the entire cylinder forward. The gun got cleaned and relegatd to the pile in the closet where I keep empty gun boxes. I stumbled across it & was sorely tempted to pull out the nice Ampco nipples, then just toss it back into the closet of oblivion.

Uberti has several importers, and none were willing to step up and even discuss the problem. They're all incompetent, pencil-pushers with a$$hat attitudes.

Anyone know of a competent fix without shaving the frame or other bubba maneuvers? I'm guessing that maybe the arbor could be seated deeper, but I don't know of anyone locally competent to do the work.
 

bang

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Did you get it new?
Is it brass frame?
What is the condition of the wedge?
How far does the wedge go in past the lug on the spring?
How much cylinder gap is it?
Have you tried a cylinder that you know is specifically for the year model?
What does the hammer face look like?
Check that the arbor fits properly.
Remove the cylinder then install barrel turned so the mating surfaces miss. If there is a gap then the arbor is bottoming out. Trim a small amount at a time from end of arbor.
If it overlaps but you need to close cylinder gap remove material from mating surface so the barrel assembly moves aft. It's not a buba fix.
Once you get the barrel assembly moved aft and achieve good cylinder gap you may need to narrow the wedge a bit. Depends on how it fits. I would narrow the wedge over reworking the arbor slot. IMO.
 
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AZbpBurner

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Did you get it new?
Is it brass frame?
What is the condition of the wedge?
How far does the wedge go in past the lug on the spring?
How much cylinder gap is it?
Have you tried a cylinder that you know is specifically for the year model?
What does the hammer face look like?
Check that the arbor fits properly.
Remove the cylinder then install barrel turned so the mating surfaces miss. If there is a gap then the arbor is bottoming out. Trim a small amount at a time from end of arbor.
If it overlaps but you need to close cylinder gap remove material from mating surface so the barrel assembly moves aft. It's not a buba fix.
Once you get the barrel assembly moved aft and achieve good cylinder gap you may need to narrow the wedge a bit. Depends on how it fits. I would narrow the wedge over reworking the arbor slot. IMO.
Are you a trained, certified gunsmith?
 

Zonie

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Are you a trained, certified gunsmith?
I don't see that that has anything to do with your problem. bang asked logical, pertinent questions, and all of them could have a direct bearing on coming up with the right answer.

If you don't want to answer the questions, don't be surprised if no one on the forum gives you possible answers to the guns problems.
 

Stophel

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Bang gave precisely the right procedures to address the problem.
 

Treestalker

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Most of us lack a degree in black powder gunsmithology, but manage to fix our own stuff with amazing results. If you were ready to chunk the gun, why not try to learn what others have done with the same problem? I just fixed a '51 navy .44 using the exact method Bang suggested. You won't find many 'certified gunsmiths' who know jackchit about black powder guns or willing to work on them for less than boucoup dollars if at all. The arcane arts are sometimes learned in the least likely places. Give us a chance.
 
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Billy Boy

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Most of us lack a degree in black powder gunsmithology, but manage to fix our own stuff with amazing results. If you were ready to chunk the gun, why not try to learn what others have done with the same problem? I just fixed a '51 navy .44 using the exact method Bang suggested. You won't find many 'certified gunsmiths' who know jackchit about black powder guns or willing to work on them for less than boucoup dollars if at all. The arcane arts are sometimes learned in the least likely places. Give us a chance.
I have Bubba’ed up whatever needed to be done, including re-staking arbors and milling down barrel / frame abutments but I would never work on someone else's gun. This is a do - it - yourself love affair with history for me.
 
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I have never worked on BP revolvers but as most agree here have fixed a few problems with the long arms, as to the un-mentionable hand guns have been through two armorers courses Smith & Wesson/ RUGER yes these were armors courses and not gun smith schools. Seems to me comparing the fix for cylinder end shake from Bang is a reasonable approach. And I agree if you do not want direction or advise why ask for it, All want to help. I personally have picked up a few things that were perplexing in a repair situation. There is a lot of knowledge here use it to your best advantage.
 

bang

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I have never worked on BP revolvers but as most agree here have fixed a few problems with the long arms, as to the un-mentionable hand guns have been through two armorers courses Smith & Wesson/ RUGER yes these were armors courses and not gun smith schools. Seems to me comparing the fix for cylinder end shake from Bang is a reasonable approach. And I agree if you do not want direction or advise why ask for it, All want to help. I personally have picked up a few things that were perplexing in a repair situation. There is a lot of knowledge here use it to your best advantage.
The fix isn't even mine. It derives from research to fix my own. Been fixing my own for near 50 years. Research that the OP can now do on his, own. IMO
 

DBrevit

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To the OP,
The questions asked on the first reply are pertinent, each would need to be answered in order to give a educated reply, it's difficult at best to answer a question or offer a method of repair when working/responding blind, my suggestion is, lets start over and if possible post some pictures with focus on the cylinder gap, wedge, with barrel still on and wedge removed,a picture through the wedge opening, contact area frame to barrel (bottom) and recoil shield to cylinder. The correct fix can be a couple of things and are no big deal but adjusting one will in many cases require making adjustment in a couple of other places, to move barrel assembly back you can remove material from the barrel at the contact point at frame (do not remove from frame) it will only need a little, if the arbor is bottomed out normally the barrel contact point at frame has a few thou gap, you can see that the problem can be a few things and can become a greater problem if the wrong adjustment is done or done in the wrong order.

As far as distributors go the problem may be the fact as you noted that you purchased this gun years ago, getting things done at this time with sales or distributors is a pain, they are behind with shipping, phone contact for some has been shut down (got a notice from Midway yesterday).

Just my 2 cents, blackpowder revolver gunsmith , yes I am.


P.S.
Treestalker,
I know the manufacturer called the gun you have a 51 Navy .44, but a Navy caliber was .36, Army caliber .44, I wish Pietta would not do this.
 
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Treestalker

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To the OP,
The questions asked on the first reply are pertinent, each would need to be answered in order to give a educated reply, it's difficult at best to answer a question or offer a method of repair when working/responding blind, my suggestion is, lets start over and if possible post some pictures with focus on the cylinder gap, wedge, with barrel still on and wedge removed,a picture through the wedge opening, contact area frame to barrel (bottom) and recoil shield to cylinder. The correct fix can be a couple of things and are no big deal but adjusting one will in many cases require making adjustment in a couple of other places, to move barrel assembly back you can remove material from the barrel at the contact point at frame (do not remove from frame) it will only need a little, if the arbor is bottomed out normally the barrel contact point at frame has a few thou gap, you can see that the problem can be a few things and can become a greater problem if the wrong adjustment is done or done in the wrong order.

As far as distributors go the problem may be the fact as you noted that you purchased this gun years ago, getting things done at this time with sales or distributors is a pain, they are behind with shipping, phone contact for some has been shut down (got a notice from Midway yesterday).

Just my 2 cents, blackpowder revolver gunsmith , yes I am.


P.S.
Treestalker,
I know the manufacturer called the gun you have a 51 Navy .44, but a Navy caliber was .36, Army caliber .44, I wish Pietta would not do this.
Yes, I am aware of the discrepancy. But it looks like a .51, so I call it that. It also has a brass frame (the horror).
 

sourdough

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I thought Mr. bang's questions were spot on, especially the second question. Brassers open up another can of worms if the revolver has been subject to heavy loads, which will cause the recoil shield ring around the arbor to be imprinted by the ratchet on the rear of the cylinder. At hammer down and at full cock the endplay will be much more than at half cock.

If the OP does not trust the "amateur" opinions voiced here concerning the problem, maybe a published online author like Larsen E. Pettifogger might interest him/her. His files concern 6-shot revolvers (and the OP has a 5-shot revolver) and are picture heavy.

If you go to the link, you will find treatises on both Pietta (2 parts) and Uberti (4 parts) revolvers. Download the .pdf files (most computers will recognize these rather than the more obscure file formats). I have all six on my HDD and regularly refer to them when a question arises in my mind.


Best of luck to the OP.

Regards,

Jim
 

AZbpBurner

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Some of the info seemed pertinent. Blindly accepting info over the internet can run a project down a rabbithole in short order. I don't know this guy from any old Joe Doakes, so I thought my inquiry about credentials was a valid one.
 

bang

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Some of the info seemed pertinent. Blindly accepting info over the internet can run a project down a rabbithole in short order. I don't know this guy from any old Joe Doakes, so I thought my inquiry about credentials was a valid one.
If you took the time to research instead of bleeding others for information you would have found out that the information was valid. Those that read these posts will figure out what a waste of time helping you is. You will no longer be helped, at least by me and many others.
 

DBrevit

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If you took the time to research instead of bleeding others for information you would have found out that the information was valid. Those that read these posts will figure out what a waste of time helping you is. You will no longer be helped, at least by me and many others.
Bang,
I think you are a little out of line with your response, this is a forum, a place to ask questions.
People may not ask in a correct manor or even ask the right question but to say a person will no longer receive help is not right. We can see your feelings got hurt but that is no excuse to be petty and act like a school yard bully, if you don't want to help or interact on this thread, don't reply, it will help your blood pressure .
 

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