Reconciling the past

[tenngun]

Buffalo jump?

Tongue hunts too

 

[tenngun]

I have, and I’d imagine that there was some waste there. But, in the absence of a gun, how else would they be sure to feed themselves through a hard winter? The ride up and spear them method I suppose. But it’s less efficient.

Horse are a western import in to America. The Great Plains tribes we think of all abandoned farming communities to become horse indians. And most in the eighteenth century, and late at that. Peter Fapp called them the ‘make believe Indians’, Since they built their whole culture around white man imports.
They were never substance hunters. They came for the chance to hunt. They left ‘food security’ because they had the ability to hunt in abundance

 

[Uncle Miltie]

For those who care to purse the paleo DNA issue between historic peoples and prehistoric peoples in N.America you might be surprised.....

 

[alcessapiens]

Horse are a western import in to America. The Great Plains tribes we think of all abandoned farming communities to become horse indians. And most in the eighteenth century, and late at that. Peter Fapp called them the ‘make believe Indians’, Since they built their whole culture around white man imports.
They were never substance hunters. They came for the chance to hunt. They left ‘food security’ because they had the ability to hunt in abundance

Yep, Spanish brought horses. But no warrior would choose to walk when a horse allows you to cover more ground.

Horse are a western import in to America. The Great Plains tribes we think of all abandoned farming communities to become horse indians. And most in the eighteenth century, and late at that. Peter Fapp called them the ‘make believe Indians’, Since they built their whole culture around white man imports.
They were never substance hunters. They came for the chance to hunt. They left ‘food security’ because they had the ability to hunt in abundance

Peter Farb is who you mean, I think. Man’s rise to civilization (1968). He’s making comparisons between the”noble savage “ myths and the relative timelines of migration and cultural interplay. With the Spanish infusion of horses, native Americans then had the ability to alter and completely change their way of life. The “make believe Indians” wasn’t a pejorative term but an acknowledgement that what we think of as plains Indians is a construct, not the entire historical picture. Damned good writer and an early conservationist.

Also, if you had a chance at a horse, would you really want to keep footslogging around?

 

[tenngun]

Farb, that’s right. Yes he wasn’t making a bad comment about the plains tribes, only discussing the change that came because of White products.
Ask the Apache about foot slogging. They would ride, but we’re happy to ride the horse to death then have it for dinner.
As a people the Navaho and Apache never went for the horse culture.
It was really interesting I think that as horse spread up the Mississippi valley it wasn’t until the north end that tribes began adopting the plains life style. Osage,Caddo,Tejas ect just passed the horses by, with very limited use. Horses came out of the south but so much of the plains tribes came out of the north.
I wonder why.

 

[alcessapiens]

Farb, that’s right. Yes he wasn’t making a bad comment about the plains tribes, only discussing the change that came because of White products.
Ask the Apache about foot slogging. They would ride, but we’re happy to ride the horse to death then have it for dinner.
As a people the Navaho and Apache never went for the horse culture.
It was really interesting I think that as horse spread up the Mississippi valley it wasn’t until the north end that tribes began adopting the plains life style. Osage,Caddo,Tejas ect just passed the horses by, with very limited use. Horses came out of the south but so much of the plains tribes came out of the north.
I wonder why.

Big, open country I guess. Can you imagine trying to get anywhere in Nebraska on foot? Give me a horse or I’ll just stay put and grow potatoes.

 

[Dartwick]

Oh Im sure the testing was accurate. But sometimes the narratives they spin around the DNA are iffy.

 

[jd945043]

As a student of history I can say that the inhabitants of the past were totally different than our society today. Looking back we can not condemn everything they practiced because we are jaundiced by our own world. What was legal and necessary for them was sometimes playing by ear and like us today they had to make it up as they lived life. Remember that no matter good or bad they are pushing up daisies. We can only imagine what we would have done in some of the same situations. Enjoy their stories and look at how they had to fit square pegs in round holes.

 

[mushka]

I can let the history rest, it's over. I can complain about present day because we should know better. Humanity is an intelligent , stupid species, depending on what it's trying to accomplish.

 

[Sam squanch]

Ned Kelly, Hero

I like Benny Hill’s version of him….

 

[Tom A Hawk]

For those who care to purse the paleo DNA issue between historic peoples and prehistoric peoples in N.America you might be surprised.....

Please elaborate. The subject of the peopling of the Americas is of great interest.

 

[tenngun]

Robin Hood… had a great press agent. Various American gunmen/lawmen, Joaquin Murieta…good press. People want heroic myths, the little guy taking on the man. , Often. Both were dickheads. If you only present one side of the story, you can make a hero of the most unheroic material. Hell, Josef Stalin had the best work ethic of any world leader , still a dickhead.

Or we may look at Wyatt Earp. He was the hero of the ok corral land the events that followed because he lived to tell the story. Horn would die a ‘bad guy’ because….. why exactly? Too many conflicting interests there. Screwed by his employers, bad man, too bad to cover for, little of each?

 

[alcessapiens]

Or we may look at Wyatt Earp. He was the hero of the ok corral land the events that followed because he lived to tell the story. Horn would die a ‘bad guy’ because….. why exactly? Too many conflicting interests there. Screwed by his employers, bad man, too bad to cover for, little of each?

Last man standing tells the tale (any old way he pleases).

 

[alcessapiens]

I like Benny Hill’s version of him….

All Benny hill skits are the same. If he did Winston Churchill: lingerie, boobs, running about… Guy Fawkes: lingerie, boobs, running about…maybe fireworks. Gandhi… yep, lingerie, boobs, running about.

 

[Columbus]

I have, and I’d imagine that there was some waste there. But, in the absence of a gun, how else would they be sure to feed themselves through a hard winter? The ride up and spear them method I suppose. But it’s less efficient.

They're not going to "ride" up and spear anything as they had no horses until we brought them.

 

[alcessapiens]

They're not going to "ride" up and spear anything as they had no horses until we brought them.

Who’s we? You weren’t even born nor likely a conquistador.

 

[tenngun]

Who’s we? You weren’t even born nor likely a conquistador.

Oh ain’t you heard, you are guilty of all sins your ten times great ancestor did

 

[alcessapiens]

Oh ain’t you heard, you are guilty of all sins your ten times great ancestor did

Well, I guess I’m guilty of repeatedly rebelling against the English. Screw you cromwell! ( Irish here, since 1916.)