Recommendations on SxS?

Muzzleloading Forum

Help Support Muzzleloading Forum:

Pukka Bundook

45 Cal.
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
996
Reaction score
615
Location
Alberta Canada.
What Feltwad says.

Why pay a great price for a repro that doesn't handle anything like an original?...and will not pattern like one either, as it will not be regulated.
A good English double can still be had for Much less than $1,000.
Also, I'd suggest doing some reading on choke versus cylinder bores, and you will find that the star is the cylinder.
Good patterns for all game getting Can be produced, and will be effective to 40 yards with normal loads.
The very idea of paying more for less has me baffled.

Best,
Richard.
 

Loyalist Dave

Cannon
Staff member
Moderator
MLF Supporter
Joined
Nov 22, 2011
Messages
12,940
Reaction score
7,821
Location
People's Republic of Maryland
Gentlemen,

I provided actual guns that the OP could purchase.

Instead of suggesting that he obtain something generic...i.e. an original Britsh double, can you suggest any that are actually for sale that he can afford to import into The States, or perhaps are already here? He might not be the only person on the forum who would benefit from knowing of such a source? :wink: :grin:

LD
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
433
Reaction score
33
RJDH said:
A good English double can still be had for Much less than $1,000.

I'd be very interested to know where to look for such guns. I only know of Dixie Gun Works and TOTW for places that specialize in traditional guns. Cabela's has a mod/full Pederosoli online for $899. There are a few options on GunBroker, but nothing noted as an "English Double" for less than $1K and most are much higher than that.

Any other places I should be looking??

Thanks again!
 

Feltwad

45 Cal.
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
1,757
Reaction score
1,926
Yes I would say that English originals are expensive in the States but here in the UK they are ready available and not expensive for a provincial gun. If you look at UK main auction houses you can bid on a original and most auction houses will ship or arrange it with a courier.
Also may I say has a Muzzle loading Forum
saying [Keeping Tradition Alive] and yet in this thread members are talking about repros with screw in chokes when originals were true cylinder where is the tradition in that .
Feltwad
 

Pukka Bundook

45 Cal.
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
996
Reaction score
615
Location
Alberta Canada.
Gents,

I'm up in Canada, but have seen lots of old doubles for sale over the years.
Even at gunshows they are Very often in the $500 range.
what I can do, is I can take contact info and pass it on to any interested parties. How would that be?
Also, check the auction houses in Canada and the States. I lined up a Very rare double for a pal.
(Breechloader) of a type that they didn't even have photos of in Mr Baker's book, "The British Shotgun". (only have the patents in the book)

It cost him about $300-ish US from a big auction house down East. (US)
Also, if the price is right I could pick the odd one up and pass it along without scalping anyone.

Fair do's?

If anyone wants to PM me with what they are looking for, I'll keep my eyes open.
Also have a pal back home and we seem to have a cheaper alternative in shipping over here from there. (UK)

Best,
Richard.
 

swathdiver

45 Cal.
Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
977
Reaction score
3
Location
Treasure Coast of Florida
dsayer said:
Hey all,

I think this summer's purchase is going to be a side by side shotgun.

Couple of criteria for my uses:
1) less than $1000
2) something that can be effective for turkey and upland game (maybe waterfowl, but I haven't hunted ducks/geese for many years)
3) doesn't have to really shine here, but would be fun to take this to the skeet range where my step dad is a member just to see their faces (they already think I'm crazy for using a pump action shotgun for skeet)
4) open to either used or new, but I'm only really familiar with Pederosoli in this price range for new. Are there others I should consider?
5) shooting PRBs is a low priority for me with this gun.

Based on this criteria I think your best option will be a 12 gauge gun. A 10 bore would be better for water fowl but some ranges will not allow you to shoot 10 gauges and if you're going to shoot skeet more than ducks...

Pedersoli in the 1970s made a lightweight 12 gauge shotgun, weighed just 5-1/2 pounds but in reality many were 13 and some 14 gauge.

1980s to today they weigh over seven pounds now.

Pietta also made doubles from about 1976 until 1994. These too are seven pounders and excellent pointers.

I have all three and the old Pedersoli fits me best and comes right up on the sights but the Pietta is right behind it. The Pietta is more stout and heavier loads don't hurt my shoulder so much.

You're welcome to try them but now see that you're quite some distance away.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2004
Messages
14,767
Reaction score
287
Loyalist Dave said:
Instead of suggesting that he obtain something generic...i.e. an original Britsh double, can you suggest any that are actually for sale that he can afford to import into The States, or perhaps are already here? He might not be the only person on the forum who would benefit from knowing of such a source?

Amen! Love to know the sources. Please include any details on import fees and procedures, as well as shipping costs. A guy can sometimes buy stuff real cheap at the source.... Without regard for the expenses of getting it home. Might just be cheaper to buy a plane ticket and go pick one out in person.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
433
Reaction score
33
RJDH said:
Gents,

I'm up in Canada, but have seen lots of old doubles for sale over the years.
Even at gunshows they are Very often in the $500 range.
what I can do, is I can take contact info and pass it on to any interested parties. How would that be?
Also, check the auction houses in Canada and the States. I lined up a Very rare double for a pal.
(Breechloader) of a type that they didn't even have photos of in Mr Baker's book, "The British Shotgun". (only have the patents in the book)

It cost him about $300-ish US from a big auction house down East. (US)
Also, if the price is right I could pick the odd one up and pass it along without scalping anyone.

Fair do's?

If anyone wants to PM me with what they are looking for, I'll keep my eyes open.
Also have a pal back home and we seem to have a cheaper alternative in shipping over here from there. (UK)

Best,
Richard.

Thanks for the ideas on places look and for the offer to help, Richard!
I'll look into the local gun show scene here in Denver and see what they have next month. I've never been but apparently it's pretty large with 700+ tables. Seems a reasonably good chance there could be something interesting there. Will also start looking at the local auctions.
I'm not in a huge rush so I can (try to) be patient and wait for the right gun at the right price.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
433
Reaction score
33
Thanks for the specific examples. Will definitely consider these and similar models.
Yes, Florida might be a little far to test drive some doubles. Thanks though. I probably won't be in Florida until February and hope to have something in the case by then.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
433
Reaction score
33
I was looking at the website for Circle Fly Wads yesterday and thought they had some really helpful advice on loading double barrels and dealing with choked bores. Maybe common knowledge to you guys, but I found it really helped me wrap my head around the process.

From the site: https://circlefly.com/muzzleloaders
It is sometimes necessary to use one size larger overshot cards (i.e., 11 ga. in a 12 ga. gun) so the recoil of the first barrel does not cause the shot charge of the second barrel to move forward. You can tell if this is happening if your second barrel does not pattern well. We recommend this practice in all muzzle loading double guns.

Place the nitro card on it’s edge and force it down thru the choke tube with a ball starter, then tip it over flat once you have gotten past the choke and seat it on the powder. This does the least amount of damage to the wad, by only flattening it on 2 sides. The fiber wad can be undersized, for instance, using a 14 gauge fiber in a 12 gauge full choke gun, as the fiber would be destroyed ramming it thru the choke. A 11ga. or 12ga. overshot card is thin and flexible enough to go thru a choke tube without damage.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

dodger

40 Cal.
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
182
Reaction score
0
I would say that the tradition lies in being willing and eager to shoot a muzzleloading firearm .
I live in a remote [ish] part of Canada and ,unlike the UK , our local gun stores do not stock muzzleloading SXS and they are not readily available . I have tried to buy a couple of original shotguns from gunshops in the eastern provinces , but buying sight unseen has proven that some of the sellers are "economical with the truth" when they describe the guns . I have learnt the hard way that it pays to take no-one's word for granted and to personally inspect every potential purchase.
Much better bet to buy a repro with a guarantee , if you just want to shoot .For some , having multichokes will make the gun more versatile for different shooting regimes, when an additional gun cannot be justified economically.
Collectors of originals will no doubt have a different view .
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
433
Reaction score
33
dodger said:
I would say that the tradition lies in being willing and eager to shoot a muzzleloading firearm .
I live in a remote [ish] part of Canada and ,unlike the UK , our local gun stores do not stock muzzleloading SXS and they are not readily available . I have tried to buy a couple of original shotguns from gunshops in the eastern provinces , but buying sight unseen has proven that some of the sellers are "economical with the truth" when they describe the guns . I have learnt the hard way that it pays to take no-one's word for granted and to personally inspect every potential purchase.
Much better bet to buy a repro with a guarantee , if you just want to shoot .For some , having multichokes will make the gun more versatile for different shooting regimes, when an additional gun cannot be justified economically.
Collectors of originals will no doubt have a different view .

Well stated and I agree. :hatsoff:
 

Feltwad

45 Cal.
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
1,757
Reaction score
1,926
Yes collectors have a different view tradition is what it says not screw in chokes and reproes ,it will be in lines next .
Feltwad
 

dodger

40 Cal.
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
182
Reaction score
0
'---it will be in lines next---".
Discussion of inlines is banned on this site , so that will not be next .
A great deal of discussion here is centered around reproduction or replica muzzleloaders , not to your taste perhaps but it gives some of us less fortunate individuals a chance to experience muzzleloaders .
Beautiful guns are also being made by talented individuals , but they are just as much repros as the factory made guns .

Cheer up , nobody has mentioned breech loaders , goshdarned infernal devil spawn contraptions !
Yet !
[ oh darn it , there , I went and mentioned them!]
 

Feltwad

45 Cal.
Joined
May 28, 2017
Messages
1,757
Reaction score
1,926
Typical answer from a novice who does not seem to know the true tradition of a smoothbore muzzle loader and its many ignitions. A repro kept to tradition does not need fixed chokes ect,ect .
Feltwad
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2007
Messages
9,215
Reaction score
9,499
Location
England.
dodger said:
'---it will be in lines next---".
Discussion of inlines is banned on this site , so that will not be next .
A great deal of discussion here is centered around reproduction or replica muzzleloaders , not to your taste perhaps but it gives some of us less fortunate individuals a chance to experience muzzleloaders .
Beautiful guns are also being made by talented individuals , but they are just as much repros as the factory made guns .

Cheer up , nobody has mentioned breech loaders , goshdarned infernal devil spawn contraptions !
Yet !
[ oh darn it , there , I went and mentioned them!]
It's early here and his meds haven't kicked in yet! :thumbsup:
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2018
Messages
433
Reaction score
33
I get the desire for "tradition." However, I'm in agreement with dodger and others on this one. I can't afford a high-end custom gun that meets all the PC criteria (and they're still repros as noted) and I'm not sure I'm willing to risk buying a pre-1865 firearm. Even if I had the chance to inspect it myself, I don't have sufficient expertise to determine whether that gun is safe to shoot.

So, for now, that pretty much leaves me with factory repros like Pederosoli, and, like it or not, most of those are going to come with choked bores. That doesn't change your approach/belief system with regard to the firearms you purchase and use, but it's the most readily available option for many of us. Being overly restrictive on what's "traditional enough" is a sure way to kill off this hobby/lifestyle we all enjoy and share IMO. Considering the average age of the members on this forum (no offense guys) we don't need to exacerbate the problem.

:2
 
Top