Re: Militaryheritage firearms

Discussion in 'Smoothbore' started by -, Feb 28, 2004.

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  1. Feb 28, 2004 #1

    Guest

    Many of you have visited this wonderful site, along with noticing that the barrels they use are seamless tubing, along with the #'s particular to the composition of this hardened steel.
    : I cannot disclose the properties of the steel(I don't know which # means what), however I have built a smoothbored gun in the past with a piece of seamless tubing. This .44 cal, 36" X 7/8" across the flats barrel was quite accurate and shot 1/2 ounce of #8's very well also. At 25yds. it would hold a 1 1/2" group and is still shooting ball and shot in Smithers to this day, 20years after I made it. Whether or not the metal's compostion is the same, I also cannot say, but the numbers do sound familiar.
    : What I do know, is that this is a very successful, well established company and that they wouldn't sell you anything that wasn't safe. This is true especially in this modern world of spure-of-the-moment litigation.
    : I'm also certain that these barrels are of much better quality than was used in 17 or 18's or whatever date of damascus barrels that were welded one end to the other with hundreds of inches of welds in each and every barrel.
    : In the early spring, I plan on buying the Dragoon pistol and perhaps a 1717 .69 cal musket or maybe the India Pattern Brown Bess in carbine form.
    : As far a fit and finish, I believe you'll find these to be rather exactly like the originals in most every way. We tend to 'over finish' guns these days, compared to the contract weapons, made in the thousands & issued to the troops. With that in mind, perhaps they won't match up with 'some' of the more modern 'replicas', but they will be more accurately representative in my opinion, of course.
    Daryl
     
  2. Feb 28, 2004 #2

    musketman

    musketman

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    A .44 caliber smooth bore, I think we would like to see some pictures of that if you can post them...


    There is something gratifying about contract weapons, I too, like the simplicity of the Brown Bess and the Charleville muskets...
     
  3. Feb 28, 2004 #3

    Deadeye

    Deadeye

    Deadeye

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    Musketman, Yesterday a friend brought an old gun over to show me. Looked sorta like a brown bess, was a long smoothbore with the U.S. and the eagle on the lockplate and also on the lockplate was Canton 1810 or maybe 1816. The cock looked like a Harpers Ferry cock with the hole thru it. Does any of this ring a bell with you on any of the old military guns? Was all original, good shape for almost 200 yrs.
     
  4. Feb 28, 2004 #4

    musketman

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    Could be one of these:
    http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976342336.htm
    Harper's Ferry 1828" at the tail and Eagle/"US", bold eagle, marking under the pan...

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976342639.htm

    http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976381396.htm
    Canton Bern military flintlock musket M.1804

    I got a few questions that will help ID the musket...

    Did the musket have two or three barrel bands, or was the barrel pinned?

    The Harpers Ferry cock with the hole thru it, was the hole round, oval or heart shaped?

    Did the musket have brass or iron features?
     
  5. Feb 28, 2004 #5

    Deadeye

    Deadeye

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    It looked a lot like the Harpers Ferry 1816 in the 1st picture except where the Harpers Ferry marking and date is on the tail of the lock it said Canton and date instead.
    It had the bayonet lug and he had the original bayonet and sheath. The buttplate and triggerguard and ramrod were iron
    but the ramrod thimbles were brass. I thought that was odd but they didn't look replaced. There was another name under the U.S. and eagle on the lockplate, 2 names actually,
    something and something, I can't remember what they were.
    With my memory I should have taken a picture. He'll be coming over again soon, as I am working on another gun for him, and I'll see if he'll bring it again. It appears that it might be that model but made by another factory. Was there a factory in Canton, Ohio? I think it had barrel bands.
    Thanks for your help, I appreciate it.
     
  6. Feb 28, 2004 #6

    musketman

    musketman

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    I am willing to help as much as you let me...

    I live close to Canton, Ohio within 60 miles...
    I can check to see if any gunsmiths are on file there during the date of the musket...
     
  7. Feb 29, 2004 #7

    Guest

    Sorry to disappoint you, the .44 smoothbore isn't in my possession anymore. A friend in Smithers has it, or rather, his wife shoots it in the rendezvous they have around there. According to Richard, it will ring the 100yd. gong every time with 45/50gr. 3F & patched .433 ball. The gong is 8" is dia. i sued to use the same charge with 1/2 oz. of #8;'s for trap. I won the trap shoot with it the season I usd it. 10 for 10- every bird was only broken, just broken, some only 2 pieces - HA!- but broken they were as 10 broken ones, is better than smoking 9 and missing one.
    Daryl
     
  8. Feb 29, 2004 #8

    Deadeye

    Deadeye

    Deadeye

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    Thanks, Musketman, I mentioned Canton, Ohio because it was the only Canton I could think of. I'm sure there are some other Cantons in various states. Canton was stamped right where Harpers Ferry would have been if it had been made there. Does anyone know of a Canton Arsenal anywhere in the
    U.S. around 1800? ::
     
  9. Feb 29, 2004 #9

    musketman

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    The Swiss had a Canton Arsenal, and firearms were brought to this country along with immigrants...

    See link for their proof stamp...
    http://www.swissrifles.com/proofs/
     
  10. Mar 1, 2004 #10

    Deadeye

    Deadeye

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    I know about the Swiss but this is a U.S. military rifle.
     
  11. Mar 1, 2004 #11

    musketman

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    Was any of these it?

    Contract Manufacturers of the 1816 musket

    J. Baker, Philedelphia - Type III
    P. & E.W. Blake
    E. Buell - Type I
    A. Carruth - Type I
    Brooke Evans - Type I
    W.L. Evans - Type III
    R. & J.D. Johnson - Type III

    I'm not going to give up, darn the torpedoes, or something like that :winking:!
     
  12. Mar 1, 2004 #12

    Stumpkiller

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    Canton is also a French musket of the early 1800's. And, it has the Charleville style piercing on the cock.

    [​IMG]

    Could be from Napolean's arsenal. Mon Dieu!

    Further investigation: The above image is of a Swiss license manufactured French M.1804 musket, 18mm bore. The French one had different markings from the one imaged, but I haven't found out what those were. . . yet.
     
  13. Mar 2, 2004 #13

    Deadeye

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    Musket and Stump. The owner is bringing it back on Thursday and will leave it here with me so I'll be able to tell you exactly what it says. Thanks again for all your help.
     
  14. Mar 2, 2004 #14

    Guest

    Daryl,.... I think I'll give'em a try too!! I had been plan'n on build'n a .62 pistol out'a North Star West "parts",.... but, the more I look at the .62 English Dragoon Pistol offered by "Militaryheritage",.... the "MORE" I want one!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif :: ::
     
  15. Mar 3, 2004 #15

    TwoShadows

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    Has anyone noticed that the breech plug is overtightened in the lower picture of Stumpkiller's post?
     
  16. Mar 3, 2004 #16

    Zonie

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    "
    Has anyone noticed that the breech plug is overtightened in the lower picture of Stumpkiller's post"

    Uup. That's pretty common on old guns that have been disassembled and cleaned up and then reassembled.

    The breech threads usually have a lot of rust on them. When it is cleaned off it is about the same thing as removing some of the threads face so when it is put back together the breech plug has to be turned "that much" more to get the plug bottomed out against the bore shoulder.

    Nice condition for a old gun though.
     
  17. Mar 3, 2004 #17

    Guest

    YES - that Dragoon is very nice as well as the Potsdam. I really like the shortened Naval pistol as well. The Potsdam is also featured in The Rifle Shoppe catolog. See their on-line page at www.therifleshoppe.com
    Daryl
     
  18. Mar 5, 2004 #18

    Deadeye

    Deadeye

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    Musketman, I got the gun we've been talking about today.
    It's CANTON 1810 on tail of lock. The name under the eagle and US is R&C Leonard. The hole in the cock is heart shaped.
    Barrel is 44 1/2" and is pinned to stock, no barrel bands.
    US also on top of barrel near breech also in small letters under the US is ct. On opposite side of stock from lock is a cartouche with 2 letters, can't make out the 1st one 2nd one looks to be a W. A smaller cartouche sits atop this one
    and contains a V. Bore is .700. Forend on stock and ramrod thimbles are brass everything else iron. Barrel is 1.25 at breech and .830 at muzzle. Any and all help appreciated.
     
  19. Mar 5, 2004 #19

    Guest

    Is it rifled? Many of the .69's were refurbished, and rifled, but usually converted to percussion first.
    Daryl
     
  20. Mar 5, 2004 #20

    Deadeye

    Deadeye

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    No, It's a smoothbore.
     

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