RB Diameter for Bare Ball Loads in a 20ga. SB?

[RonT]

Dug out an old scrapbook and took a pic of a pic. Here's my oldest son at one of the early 80's Eastern Rondys shooting his ~3/4 size .50 Cal. Trade Gun. I would only permit him to load Powder, .490 ball, 'somekinda' wad ; grass, leaves, moss...whatever, and a card. This load was at the suggestion of others in a HC/PC group that we shoot with at the time. No patch and the load shot surprisingly well.

 

[hanshi]

I used to shoot some bare ball loads in my 20ga cast from WW measuring .606". The bore is very tight on this one, about .610" + or -. I got rid of the WW and only shoot .600" prb now. But the bare ball load would stay on a dinner plate at 50 yards.

 

[bigted]

Hanshi, good info. Dinner plate groups will put venison or elk,bear on the dinner plate or stew pot.

 

[bigted]

I got out today and did some further experiments concerning bare balls in my 62 SB.

I began with 60 grains 1.5 Ol E powder followed by a thick cardboard over powder card licked along the outside bearing edge, followed by a .610 ball and this followed by an over shot thin card. This load at 30 yards produced 3 inch groups.

Then i upped the charge to 75 grains and two into 1 inch with the third opening up to almost 3 inch again.

Upping the charge to 105 grains, i hesitantly yanked the trigger expecting the worse recoil wise. While it did allow me to know i had fired a big bore, it was easy to maintain tho. Accuracy tho was outstanding. Three were 2 inch above poa and in a 1.5 inch group. The 4rth flew out and when i swabbed the bore, the poi came back. I would trust this load throwing that huge ball to harvest any animal i have ever been around.

I have some felt that I will soak in lube for trying AND I intend to lengthen my yardage to at least 50 yds and then 75 and 100 just to see what I can expect from this smoothy.

My barrel muzzle measures .615 by the way

 

[Juice Jaws]

Hanshi, good info. Dinner plate groups will put venison or elk,bear on the dinner plate or stew pot.

Also will take down a Redcoat and those damn Hessian Mercenaries.

 

[spudnut]

While what I shoot can be considered patched,I use a .570 in a paper cartridge, I tear off ( not with my teeth... blechh) dump the powder( 80 gr. 2 F)turn it over and insert the lubed paper patched ball into the muzzle then tear off the excess paper. Then prime from my horn,I sometimes shove the excess paper down onto the ball,doesnt seem to make much difference.I dont prime from the cartridge . Seems to me most old fusils that are discovered loaded are always wadded and not patched, even a few with beaver hair.

 

[Maven]

I'd like to try loading a bare RB in my 20ga. SB, which measures .615" at the muzzle, but am uncertain about how large a pure lead RB I'll need. Should I be looking at .612"? .613"? .614"?, for example, or something else? Btw, the largest RB I have, .603", won't group better than 6" - 8" @ 25 yd. from a rest, so I'm thinking larger is better. OTOH, that same RB when patched (.014" or .018" pillow ticking) will group under 3" at the same distance, rested.

I'm open to suggestions.... And, thanks in advance!

After carefully measuring the internal diameter. of my Green River Forge bbl., I ordered a .618" RB mould from Tanner Ball Moulds. It arrived earlier in the week, but was only able to cast with it yesterday. The pure Pb RB's measured .618" - ..619", weighed between 334 - 335 grains, and slipped down my bbl. with no more effort than a [.600"] patched RB (.018" pillow ticking). Unfortunately, the weather won't allow testing for at least another week, but I'm hopeful that this new RB will do well, i.e., <6" - 8" I'm currently getting with smaller, e.g. .598" - .603", bare ball loads @ 25 yd.

 

[Grenadier1758]

You may find that you will need to wipe fouling from the bore more often or loading will become difficult.

Practice will often result in improving group size. For one session, record your sight picture by a simple drawing. Record your group size and if you observed fouling build up. As the fouling builds up, vertical stringing of the group is often observed.

 

[Maven]

Grenadier1758, Thanks for the tips! You're spot on about the increased fouling, even when using a felt wad soaked in beeswax + white Crisco. Btw, even though I don't get much fouling with a patched RB (not this one, of course) and a wet lube, I'm thinking that wiping the bore after each shot a la Dutch Schoultz, will improve things. Btw, I took a few of the lighter .618" RB's and rolled them between 2 coarse files in order to dip them in melted lube and to see whether they'd also fit my bbl.: They did! Now all I have to do is lube them and get some range time.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Bareball loads are just that, any card or wool lube 'cookie' makes it a wadded load ...

 

[Grenadier1758]

Yes, Flint62smoothie, bare ball is just that. I find I need about three shots on a woods walk to have enough fouling to hold the ball securely in place. Even going to bare ball loads, the fouling can build up enough to justify a wipe with a ball of damp tow secured with a linen thread (tow and toggle).

 

[Ketchakah]

Hatito,
In my 20bore, i use a 600 when just wadding or quick loading over powder. When patching, i use a 595. However like i have said, usually its a load of No.3 Buck.

 

[smo]

Maven, are you shooting fffg or ffg?

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Bareball 62-cal group at 25-yards overhand yesterday ... a group from patched RB loads would be (or hopefully be ... ) cloverleafed. Notice they also grouped high & right of point of aim.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I sure would like to have my smooth bore shooting g group that tightly. I do know the the first step is PRACTICE!

 

[Maven]

Maven, are you shooting fffg or ffg?

Typically FFg, but lately FFFg (and less of it!) for all my rifles and revolvers.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

I sure would like to have my smooth bore shooting g group that tightly. I do know the the first step is PRACTICE!

You are right, as I practice offhand shooting 2-3X per week. Even picking up a flint smoothie a few times a night here & there, then snapping the lock using a ‘wooden’ flint will help your cheeking, pointing and trigger control.

Muscle memory, muscle memory ... front sight, front sight, front sight ... and know where that sight is as you break the shot AND follow through! I just shot that target at a weekend shoot this past weekend and took 1st place smoothbore and 2nd place in rifle.

 

[Maven]

Update on the bore diameter, i.e., .618" RB + greased felt wad; no OP wad, and I wiped the bore after each shot : Tried these again yesterday, 11 were as cast v. 11 roughened between 2 files and dipped in beeswax - white Crisco mixture. Powder charge was 80gr. Schuetzen (Wano) FFFg. Distance was 25 yd. Of the two, the roughened .618" RB's grouped more tightly while the as cast RB's were dispersed over the target. What was different this time was the as cast load without an OP wad grouped worse than it did [last time] with the OP wad, albeit to the right of center. That being said, it seems to me that neither of these grouped better than a smaller, i.e., .598" - 603", patched RB. Testing will continue as the weather improves.

 

[smo]

Maven, in post #1 you stated the bore size as .615 is that the correct measurement ?

If so you are now shooting a .618 ball, that’s a tight load.,
Even when cleaning between shots..

Keep up the good work. As I’m continuing too follow along.

I’m still working on a good load for my 16 (.653 at the muzzle) using a .648 ball.

Here’s my target from the past shooting session...

70 grns ffg , .648 ball , 1- overshot card on top of the ball + a greased wad on top of the card.

Don’t ask why, lol it’s just what I tried and it produced better groups than anything else I’ve tried..

The wet wad seems too keep the fouling soft , making loading easier, still after 3 shots or so the bore needs a damp patch or two too keep it loading easily.

 

[Maven]

Those are great targets, smo! And of course there's always that out of group "annoyance" to keep us humble.(LOL) Also, a wet lube, e.g., 1 Ballistol : 6 water, etc., works very well as a patch lube in all my BP long guns, and in a .45-70 center fire rifle as well. As for the bore diameter in post #1, it was a mistake, which I haven't been able to correct via editing. The bore is .618" and the ball is a tad more than a slip fit in the bbl., especially when roughened and if I don't manage the powder fouling. And good luck to you with load development in the 16ga.!