RB Diameter for Bare Ball Loads in a 20ga. SB?

[Maven]

I'd like to try loading a bare RB in my 20ga. SB, which measures .615" at the muzzle, but am uncertain about how large a pure lead RB I'll need. Should I be looking at .612"? .613"? .614"?, for example, or something else? Btw, the largest RB I have, .603", won't group better than 6" - 8" @ 25 yd. from a rest, so I'm thinking larger is better. OTOH, that same RB when patched (.014" or .018" pillow ticking) will group under 3" at the same distance, rested.

I'm open to suggestions.... And, thanks in advance!

 

[Rich]

I would suggest shooting patched balls. The patch will help center the ball in the bore as it is fired. No patch will allow the ball to "rattle" or "wobble" down the barrel equal large grouping. Larger, tighter fitting ball may do slightly better, but dont bet on it being much better. Could also try say a 1/2 thick cushion wad behind the bare ball. As the gun is fired, the ball will settle into the face of the cushion helping it stay in one place.

My real question is why not just shoot a patch. That said, try the 1/2 inch cushion wad behind the ball.

 

[smo]

I just bought some .648 to use in my .653 bore, I hope they don't split the barrel coming out ..... after all they will go in. Sprue up or down. lol

I plan to do some testing in the coming weeks ahead.

In my case shooting a .626 ball with an 0.0018 patch gives poor accuracy, it some what improves with a heavy denim patch. (Blue Jean Material)

But not as much as I would like ,So I'm still looking for the better mouse trap.

 

[Brokennock]

One of my 20 gauge smoothbore guns has a .615 bore. I'm using a .615 ball with a thin overshot card on top of the powder, followed by 2 lubed felt was, then the ball, and then held in place with 2 more thin overshot cards.

A note on loading all this. I used to keep 2 different sets of thin cards in my divided wad tin. One set had nicks cut in the edge. After pouring my powder in I would seatt a card with no nick on top of the powder. Then put a nicked card just within the muzzle, then the felt wad, pushed in just enough to place the ball on them, then push this all down just within the muzzle, then the 2 cards, and then push the whole mess down, and even with nick's in the card edges I'd still fight building air pressure all the way down, often having to stop and let some air escape.
Now, I don't nick any cards. I build the entire package at the muzzle, after pouring my powder down, and I no longer fight that air chamber building pressure.

 

[Juice Jaws]

One of my 20 gauge smoothbore guns has a .615 bore. I'm using a .615 ball with a thin overshot card on top of the powder, followed by 2 lubed felt was, then the ball, and then held in place with 2 more thin overshot cards.

A note on loading all this. I used to keep 2 different sets of thin cards in my divided wad tin. One set had nicks cut in the edge. After pouring my powder in I would seatt a card with no nick on top of the powder. Then put a nicked card just within the muzzle, then the felt wad, pushed in just enough to place the ball on them, then push this all down just within the muzzle, then the 2 cards, and then push the whole mess down, and even with nick's in the card edges I'd still fight building air pressure all the way down, often having to stop and let some air escape.
Now, I don't nick any cards. I build the entire package at the muzzle, after pouring my powder down, and I no longer fight that air chamber building pressure.

Just wondering, why all the wading, does it help that much??

 

[Cruzatte]

I'd like to try loading a bare RB in my 20ga. SB, which measures .615" at the muzzle, but am uncertain about how large a pure lead RB I'll need. Should I be looking at .612"? .613"? .614"?, for example, or something else? Btw, the largest RB I have, .603", won't group better than 6" - 8" @ 25 yd. from a rest, so I'm thinking larger is better. OTOH, that same RB when patched (.014" or .018" pillow ticking) will group under 3" at the same distance, rested.

I'm open to suggestions.... And, thanks in advance!

Although I have a single barrel 20 ga. trade gun, which also measures .615 at the muzzle, I use a .610 bare ball with middling results. Duelist1954 has some videos on Youtube covering the subject. They're interesting. His loading process is similar to mine, except my powder charge is only 60 gr. 2Fg.

 

[Brokennock]

Just wondering, why all the wading, does it help that much??

Mostly an attempt to carry more lubed and keep fouling soft and to a minimum. I can shoot as much as I want using this load with no swabbing between shots. Powder charge is 85 grains of 3f.
My next endeavor will be to find a wadding material I can make or collect, that is consistent and reliable in form and availability, and yields the same results. I'd like to eliminate any need for store bought material other than powder in my load.

And yes, I've read all the reports of using leaves, Spanish moss (we don't have it here), wasp nest, etc. Wasp nest I don't feel is consistently and reliably available enough, and I doubt it's ability to carry enough lubed. Leaves, i doubt the consistency of the load and it's ability to carry lube.

O.P. , As to the original question. I use a .610 ball, as I said. But plenty of folks here use a "normal" .600 ball with wadding. If you haven't already, go check out our friend and mentor Spence's website, Bob's Blackpowder Notebook, a wealth of info and enjoyable reading there.

 

[Maven]

I tried Duelist1954's method using tow wads fore & aft with 110gr.- and 100gr. FFg and got ~8" groups @ 50 yd., but they were 9" to the right of my point of aim. Also, I remeasured the muzzle diameter with a "patched" ball (2 wraps of duct tape around the equator of a .603" RB) that I shoved down my [oiled] bbl. and then removed: The bbl. diameter is .618" rather than .615" mentioned in my original post.

Patched RB's + an OP wad work very well in this gun, at least @ 25 yd. and as Rich said, why not just stick with them, which entails no additional expense. This may indeed be the better way.

 

[Juice Jaws]

Mostly an attempt to carry more lubed and keep fouling soft and to a minimum. I can shoot as much as I want using this load with no swabbing between shots. Powder charge is 85 grains of 3f.
My next endeavor will be to find a wadding material I can make or collect, that is consistent and reliable in form and availability, and yields the same results. I'd like to eliminate any need for store bought material other than powder in my load.

And yes, I've read all the reports of using leaves, Spanish moss (we don't have it here), wasp nest, etc. Wasp nest I don't feel is consistently and reliably available enough, and I doubt it's ability to carry enough lubed. Leaves, i doubt the consistency of the load and it's ability to carry lube.

O.P. , As to the original question. I use a .610 ball, as I said. But plenty of folks here use a "normal" .600 ball with wadding. If you haven't already, go check out our friend and mentor Spence's website, Bob's Blackpowder Notebook, a wealth of info and enjoyable reading there.

Thanks, I have a 11 ga. smoothbore and get good results with 60 grs. 3F, .648 ball and .10 patch with for spit for lube

 

[Grenadier1758]

Juice, I think there may be a typo in your reply since an 11 gauge diameter is 0.751". You should get better results with a 0.748" diameter ball.

 

[tenngun]

I'd like to try loading a bare RB in my 20ga. SB, which measures .615" at the muzzle, but am uncertain about how large a pure lead RB I'll need. Should I be looking at .612"? .613"? .614"?, for example, or something else? Btw, the largest RB I have, .603", won't group better than 6" - 8" @ 25 yd. from a rest, so I'm thinking larger is better. OTOH, that same RB when patched (.014" or .018" pillow ticking) will group under 3" at the same distance, rested.

I'm open to suggestions.... And, thanks in advance!

When I shoot a bare ball it’s not really bare. Making paper cartridges a .595 in paper the paper becomes a wad the nest the ball. Shooting tow, picked hemp, picked wool I put a greased wad and nest theball down in to the wad. So a bigger ball for me would make it harder to ‘nest’. A .610 hasn’t worked well for me.

 

[Sparkitoff]

Are use a ball that is 005 less than the choke diameter. I get better accuracy then when I patch a smaller ball with the same load. I am using a felt wad under the ball on one card wad over it. I get one hole groups at 25 yards and no more than 3 inch groups at 50 yards with a double bead site system

 

[Juice Jaws]

Juice, I think there may be a typo in your reply since an 11 gauge diameter is 0.751". You should get better results with a 0.748" diameter ball.

Thank you, does 16 ga. sound better?

 

[Rifleman1776]

I'd like to try loading a bare RB in my 20ga. SB

You certainly have a right to try whatever you want as long as it is safe. But, your motivation for doing that escapes me. If a patched ball works for you, why mess with success? To answer yer question, go with whatever goes down the more easily. You will need some kind of patching to keep it from rolling back out.

 

[Toklo Etee]

Maven,
The load I shoot in my Carolina gun is as follows: 60 grains FFFg.....wad of Spanish Moss. .595 ball (my bore measures .600) then a wad of Moss on top of the ball. If I am deer hunting I use a chewed (roughed up) ball that can be thumb started but makes contact with the bore. I get great accuracy out this load and it has served me well in shooting competitions and hunting. I originally developed this load for a woods walk competition where there was ALOT of shots(approx 35) and speed in loading and accuracy was needed to take the day. I understand we're alot of the PRB guys are coming from as I shot competition doing that for years. That style of shooting is more conducive to line shooting but just did not serve my purpose on the woods walk. I just liked the challenge to see if I could develop a load that could rival what I was able to accomplish with PRB out of my fusil fin. That Carolina gun can do that.
Good luck in your endeavors
David

 

[Maven]

David, My SB shoots patched RB's (.597" -.603", as cast or rolled bet. 2 files) very well, but those same RB's don't do well when loaded "bare" in a .618" bore. I thought a bare ball, with appropriate wadding fore and aft, might improve things. Still sitting on the fence on this.

 

[Toklo Etee]

David, My SB shoots patched RB's (.597" -.603", as cast or rolled bet. 2 files) very well, but those same RB's don't do well when loaded "bare" in a .618" bore. I thought a bare ball, with appropriate wadding fore and aft, might improve things. Still sitting on the fence on this.

I first tried using balls that we're .015 undersized and just didn't get the results I wanted. When I started using a .005 (for reference.....a standard sheet of Notebook paper measures .004 thick) undersized ball with the Moss wadding my groups tightened up comparable to my patched loads(@ 25 yards off a bench a one 1" group)

 

[Biz]

David,
For about four years I shot chewed balls in my New England fowling gun (.735 ball in .745 bore) for the same reason you did (woods walks, so many targets, so little time). The balls were lubed with 50-50 beeswax olive oil and loaded with no wads over 90 grs of 2fg. Accuracy was as good as a patched ball and depending on the humidity I could get 9 -12 shots before I would need to wipe. Most times I could do that between stations.

Biz

 

[bud in pa]

My Smoothbore likes .595 balls in a paper cartridge. I get 6 in. groups at 50 yds. most of the time.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thank you, does 16 ga. sound better?

That sounds a lot better. Your 16 gauge should be about 0.662" diameter.