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Robbpiper

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My buddy just got a great deal on a used TC 50 cal flintlock. It’s in great shape but we can’t figure out the barrel twist rate. The gun looks like a traditional Hawkins style and has set triggers but the barrel is 2” shorter, no patch box or cheek piece on the stock and the ramrod holders are black. Anyone know the barrel rifling twist rate on this style TC and what shoots best out of it for lead projectiles. He got a box of Hornady PA conical bullets with it (unopened) and a box of 185 gr round balls.
 

nit wit

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Welcome from Maine. You need to ask this question in the Flintlock section. You will get more responses.
Nit Wit
 

Loyalist Dave

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My buddy just got a great deal on a used TC 50 cal flintlock. It’s in great shape but we can’t figure out the barrel twist rate. The gun looks like a traditional Hawkins style and has set triggers but the barrel is 2” shorter, no patch box or cheek piece on the stock and the ramrod holders are black. Anyone know the barrel rifling twist rate on this style TC and what shoots best out of it for lead projectiles. He got a box of Hornady PA conical bullets with it (unopened) and a box of 185 gr round balls.
Your buddy has a flintlock TC, Renegade model. The barrel is slightly shorter than the Hawken, the hardware is black, and the butt plate is a modern cap, without a metal portion on the top of the stock. No?

Like this, eh?

RENEGADE.JPG


So the barrel should be a 1:48 twist

The PA Conical bullets should work fine. The round ball should be .490 - .495 diameter, most folks use a .490 and it weighs about 175-177 grains. You will need to test fire both, and the round ball will likely need a lubed patch of cotton or linen cloth that is .015" thick

LD
 

deermanok

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Based on your description, one could only guess.
If the previous owner included round balls and PA conicals, I'm guessing it's a slower twist barrel. 1/48 or 1/66.
Load up and shoot it.
 

TerryK

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Odds are it is a Renegade, with a 1/48 twist with a shallow groove. This design was OK for patched ball or conicals that Thompson was pushing. I hunt with a bunch of guys, and the like the PA conicals a lot for the TC rifles.
TC did make a replacement barrel in 1/60 from the custom shop. I doubt you have one of those, but they do exist.
Not to be pessimistic, but generally it is rare to have a TC rifle shoot with custom guns, and that is OK. Like I said the twist and rifling depth make the barrel marginal for either conicals or PRB.
If it were me, I would load 70 grains of 2F or 3F with the PA conicals.
If you shoot a lot, PRB is probably a better choice.
With that type of barrel, it is a big challenge to get it to shoot one hole groups, just so you know the odds.
 

stikshooter

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Odds are it is a Renegade, with a 1/48 twist with a shallow groove. This design was OK for patched ball or conicals that Thompson was pushing. I hunt with a bunch of guys, and the like the PA conicals a lot for the TC rifles.
TC did make a replacement barrel in 1/60 from the custom shop. I doubt you have one of those, but they do exist.
Not to be pessimistic, but generally it is rare to have a TC rifle shoot with custom guns, and that is OK. Like I said the twist and rifling depth make the barrel marginal for either conicals or PRB.
If it were me, I would load 70 grains of 2F or 3F with the PA conicals.
If you shoot a lot, PRB is probably a better choice.
With that type of barrel, it is a big challenge to get it to shoot one hole groups, just so you know the odds.
I know a guy (on youtube ) Idaho Lewis who would differ ! He shoots stock Renegades to 1000 yds ,used to post on modern muzzle loaders and since moved on but most folks on that site would outright laugh at your misguided foolish and I might add lack of knowledge on the subject matter!/Ed
 

paulab

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I know a guy (on youtube ) Idaho Lewis who would differ ! He shoots stock Renegades to 1000 yds ,used to post on modern muzzle loaders and since moved on but most folks on that site would outright laugh at your misguided foolish and I might add lack of knowledge on the subject matter!/Ed
I think Idaho lewis uses FAST TWIST Rice barrels for his long range shooting.
 

stikshooter

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I think Idaho lewis uses FAST TWIST Rice barrels for his long range shooting.
Wrong he also did it with (STOCK) 1-48 twist and made particular mention of it as he (USED TO) think that way until he started shooting long with (AGAIN) stock Renegades with 1-48 twist barrels using his famous Accurate
( I mold ) in 45/50/54 cal . We both shoot long with Rice barrels ' me without his (EYES) but I certainly get there at least once every Friday for 40-50 shots (I shoot a lot )our private 800 yd range and can say been there done that/Ed
 

hanshi

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The only way to find out what the barrel prefers is to shoot both conical and prb during the same session. I've owned several rifles with 1-48" twist and accuracy with prb was better than with conicals, but the conicals still shot well enough that they were not far behind.
 
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By example, the .50 caliber "buffalo rifles" of the late 1800's typical had a twist of around one turn in 34 or 36 inches. With the 48" twist barrels there's no reason why a properly designed heavy bullet with a brief hollow base couldn't be made to work really well. Which brings me to...

Oh woe, oh woe, what a shame nobody mass produced the right hollow based molds for all these gazillions of industry standard .50 caliber "deer rifles". Lee Precision, Inc. got closest to it but they missed the mark too.
Which reminds me, I need to get a different base plug for this one.
500294.jpg
 

wtilenw

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Look up "accurate mold co."
 

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stikshooter

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nope
Found this one in the file. Anybody know, was this one Idaho Lewis' long range TC .50 Renegade mold?
View attachment 169674
plain base is what he shoots over a felt wad , another reason he shoot plain base (no hitch hikers) tho the man can shoot most anything that goes down the barrel (and well) too . By the way those I bullet molds are made with (His specs ) and just for info purposes Accurate molds doesn't do hollow base or hollow point molds !/Ed
 

stikshooter

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By example, the .50 caliber "buffalo rifles" of the late 1800's typical had a twist of around one turn in 34 or 36 inches. With the 48" twist barrels there's no reason why a properly designed heavy bullet with a brief hollow base couldn't be made to work really well. Which brings me to...

Oh woe, oh woe, what a shame nobody mass produced the right hollow based molds for all these gazillions of industry standard .50 caliber "deer rifles". Lee Precision, Inc. got closest to it but they missed the mark too.
Which reminds me, I need to get a different base plug for this one.
View attachment 169672
 

stikshooter

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Great for minnies not for deer rifles for sure ! The skirts vary to much for the average deer gun .To much powder and skirt blows up along with accuracy ! Hollow base molds are for short /predictable situations as in fast loading not precision shooting at whatever range you shoot at with accuracy . Since I'm not at war with deer I'll go with accurate every time as I like to eat regular too ! Greasers and paper patch will fill the freezer , hollow base suit reenactors / my opinion don't know about yours /Ed
 
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