Range report, powder test

[Silex]

Yesterday I had the chance to get out to the range and finally test the PPP Wano powder. In my 28 ga Smoothbore I used Swiss 1.5 so far because that’s what I had on hand. It did work but after the first couple of shots I usually had some problems getting “the Lady” to ignite reliably (even with swabbing). Plus there was an audible delay in ignition after the pan went off. Forum members advised to try different powder if possible FFF. The store only carried PPP ”“ so I got it is in the same ballpark as FFF.

Wano is a German powder mill, price is cheaper than Swiss and I believe sold in the U.S. as Schuetzen. They have several different lines of granularity. FFF is 0.3 ”“ 0.85 mm according to their website and the “Jagdschwarzpulver” PPP is listed as 0.425 ”“ 0.71 mm granule size.

I used 70 grains (1oz shot dipper) pocket drill and .530 ball. I bought 3 yards of that drill a while ago and with the .530 ball you can load it with the thumb. I use TOW mink oil rub the strip over the surface and store them like that, at the range cut at the muzzle. NullB pan powder. Between powder and patched ball I tried either 2 punched milk carton wads or one store bought overs powder cardboard card.

I recognized the loading to get a bit harder after the 3rd shot and I used a spit patch (both sides) plus one dry patch to swab.

For this range trip I concentrated on the things I have learned on the board here. Go slowly and deliberately.
1. When swabbing: no pumping just in and out with even strokes

2. Don’t try to aim the Smoothbore without rearsight rather develop a consistent cheek weld and shoot instinctively.

I shot at 50 meters (around 54 yards) with sandbag front rest no rear rest.

Well I was pleasantly surprised! Ignition was faster and more reliable. The first shot hit the bullseye almost in the middle (should have stopped then) the following shots were of course more spread out. With one flyer I was able to keep them within 10 inches.
I went home happy. The most important thing for me was to find out the elevation for the new powder and dial in on the load a bit. So next time I will vary the charge a bit up and down.
There was one peculiar finding:
The overpowder cards I bought did look pretty mashed up whereas the double milk carton wad held up well (see pic). Generally the patches looked good but there are two that burned through. Do you have an idea why?










Thanks for your help.

Silex

 

[Britsmoothy]

Stop that burning patch sir and you should get better groups. Try a few more cards if you can.

Sounds like you nearly there :thumbsup:

Brits.

 

[dbutch]

Cirlefly 1/8 " nitro card should stop the burn....Lube the edges.
Does the wax on the milk carton cards leave stuff in your bore?
Your bore condition is deteriorating ...tighter swab-jag-patch fit.
Your almost there don't stop now!
Good luck and keep us posted......dan

 

[Flash Pan Dan]

I have been experimenting with wads and I have found that a rubberized cork gasket material of .030 thicknesses under a lubed felt wads creates a very complete seal and promotes a cleaner burn of the powder. This may be a little elaborate, and I don’t use it all the time, but when I do it I can sure tell the difference in accuracy and bore condition after each shot.

 

[Silex]

Thanks everybody for the encouragement!

I'll keep trying.
Next I will go back to felt wads - I have those on hand and try again with a little bit of lube on them and maybe a combination with cards. More playing :grin:
As far as I can decern the milk carton doesn't leave anything, but of course cant tell for sure.

What just amazed me how mashed up the overpowder cardboard card was compared to the thinner milkcarton cards.
In therms of the jag/patch/bore fit. I used a .50 cal jag with very thick patch for swabbing. Double thinkness might be needed.

There is one outfit selling circle fly wads in Germany - I'll give them a call.

Thanks for pointing me towards those issues.
Learning, learning - every time.

Silex

 

[nwtradegun]

Schuetzen is in no way wano. it is true balck powder. i use it in my flints with no delay or missfires. it also casts the same as swiss. it is claen burning and leaves no gooy residue in humid weather as goes goex or hephalump powder. it is the equal to swiss. wano is a phony black substitue

 

[Silex]

http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/schuetzen-black-powder

Maybe we mean two different "Wano" ??
When you read the first line it says "manufactured by WANO GmbH" - that is the German Powder Mill I am talking about.
Here is their website: http://www.wano.de/
Unfortunately only in German.


Silex

 

[rafterob]

Hmm...can't say as though I have ever seen a substitute powder labeled wano. I have however seen schuetzen by wano and grafs sells wano schuetzen powder under their own name. My experience with it was pretty good but I had to work up a different load than with goex. It appeared to leave a drier fouling which I had to swab more often. But I would bet the right lube would take care of that.

 

[ericb]

From the Wano Website -

Kaliumnitrat (Potasium Nitrate/Saltpeter): 75%
Schwefel (Sulphur): 10%
Holzkohle (Wood Charcoal): 15%

A pretty Traditonal Recipe....

 

[Bon Sauvage]

Where did you hear that?

 

[Zonie]

I have several cans of Schuetzen powder, made by WANO and I can assure folks, it is the real stuff.

The only synthetic black powder replacements I know of are all made in the USA.

 

[pargent]

+1Wanno is real b/p

 

[Drago]

Is Potassium Nitrate the same as Saltpeter? or is it a mixture? I did'nt realize it had Potassium Nitrate in black powder.

 

[HardBall]

I think saltpeter is a nickname for potassium nitrate.

 

[Grandpa Ron]

I picked up some Graff and sons 2f powder while in MO on vacation. It was made by Wano. I have only good things to say about it.

It burned clean and shot well. I should have bought more but I am suspicious of house brands until I try them.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Silex]

Thanks everybody for chiming in.

In fact, I know for sure Wano only produces real B/P here in Germany and it is good quality.

It just could not rule out the possibility that there is a substiture in the U.S. with a similar name. Good that this is squared away now.

As mentioned earlier: I am very pleased with the powder, too. The power seems to be there and as well it cleaned up nicely. I actually think the residue was not as hard as with Swiss but that might be due to weather conditions. Other shooters mileage might differ here.

Thanks again and I will keep testing.

Silex

 

[Joel/Calgary]

Silex,
I think part of your problem with the over-powder cards/wads is that due to the difference between shooting a ball versus a load of shot. A flat wad pushes against a ball only at the center, where it pushes again a shot load over the full area of the wad, excepting for buckshot loads. For the wadding to seal under a ball, it needs to be either stiff and strong enough to bear the pressure where the ball in NOT in contact, or some combination of flexible, thick, and/or broad enough to conform to the ball under the pressure of the powder gasses and still jam into the annulus behind the circumference of the ball. I think the milk-carton cards survive better because they are more flexible than the rigid over-powder wad, while it is likely that neither is actually sealing adequately behind the ball. Thinner stiff wads can be used under a ball if there is a sufficiently thick and conformable cushion wad, or a loose filler like semolina or corn meal, between the card(s) and the ball, patched or unpatched. In my 16ga, I use the same 4-overshot-cards-plus-1/4"-cushion combination under a loosely patched ball that I use with a shot load.

With rifles, it is fairly common to use just an extra patch rammed on top of the powder under a patched round ball. I do this in one of my rifles when I use a somewhat looser ball-and-patch combination than I otherwise have to to get a reliable seal, sometimes using cleaning patches or my fired patches that I cleaned up from the range. Sometimes lighter material is completely burned except for a circular remnant that was wedged tight in the annulus, while some denim patches have made three or four trips downrange.

Regards,
Joel

 

[Silex]

Thank you Joel,

that makes sense, seeing the milk carton beeing bent like it is.
Next time I will experiment with card and felt combination maybe I will try tow and patch under the ball.

Thanks again for pointing it out - sometimes I can't see the wood for the trees.... :grin:

Silex