raising pattern

[gonpce]

I shot my new to me pedersoli 12 ga sxs today and although the patterns were good they were all about 6 inches low at 30 yards.(both barrels) Any ways to raise the pattern. I'm new to black powder shotguns. Thanks in advance

 

[Britsmoothy]

Could tell you but won't!
Why?
Because it's long winded to explain and no one has the commitment to do it, except me!

B :hatsoff:

 

[Keb]

Look at or "see" more barrel when sighting the gun.

 

[azmntman]

I had/have the same issue. Was told by my gunsmith buddy that I hold shotguns incorrectly. Then he came down with stage4 prostrate cancer, spread to his bladder so I have yet to beg him to teach me the right way. I know you can file the bore somehow but with Brit remaining mum we will have to wait for more info? I believe you take just a hair f a file off at a ime from the way you want the pattern moved (file inner tops in your case?). Dont try this on my sayso though......have no REAL clue :idunno:

 

[Grenadier1758]

Listen to keb. You need to see more barrel. Think of it as your eye is the rear sight. To raise the impact the rear sight has to be raised, so mount the shotgun to your shoulder to see more of the barrel.

 

[kurts]

I have a pedersoli 10 ga it is stocked with very little drop, don't push your cheek down on the comb this will bring the muzzle up, your trying to shoot it like a rifle.
good luck
kurt

 

[Black Hand]

I shot my new to me pedersoli 12 ga sxs today and although the patterns were good they were all about 6 inches low at 30 yards.(both barrels) Any ways to raise the pattern. I'm new to black powder shotguns. Thanks in advance

Change position of your cheek weld or add a pad to the stock to "lower" the butt of the stock. I saw an image of such a pad (leather with stuffing tacked to the wood) on an original gun, but can't seem to find it again.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

'Seeing more barrel' is easiest to try. I do this on my fowlers and visualize a pencil lying across the breech. During competition season, at home I'll tape a pencil or short section of dowel in place and will repeatedly pick up the fowler to cheek it a few dozen times every day or other day.

At first my eyes are open, then last few my eyes are closed as I raise it to cheek it - learn to CHEEK it well - then open eyes to confirm your sight picture. You are building 'muscle memory'! But of course you must augment this with actual shooting to be sure your load of choice/charge will hit point of aim for all this practice. But it works well!

FWIW a friend is a champion sporting clays shooter, all shots from low position, and he spends as much home practice raising the gun to the firing position as he does on actual target practice at the range.

Comb height too is simple to experiment with; albeit much more complicated to make it look good and be permanent.

Muzzle modification ... heard of it done on smoothies for roundball loads, not sure if would work the same on shot loads - I'd fear it would blow the pattern.

To raise impact, you'd file some off the bottom of the muzzle from 4 to 8 o'clock, with intent to have gas below the charge exit the muzzle first, thereby adding more lift or zoom to the bottom portion of the charge. That said, I myself wouldn't do this on a double ... unless I was really sure of what I was doing ...

 

[Capt. Jas.]

All good points above. If you raise your eye which is the rear sight and do not alter the stock to fit,you will be floating over the stock and not "into" the stock. I have seen several originals with tow or horse hair stuffed leather pads that were added by someone who knew how they needed to be into the gun.
Other techniques were/are bending the stock to fit. All this is done to adjust point of impact.
Prior to that the gun is adjusted to point of aim by bending or filing the barrels. The latter is often the go to for doubles as the need regulating to each other.

 

[Britsmoothy]

I had/have the same issue. Was told by my gunsmith buddy that I hold shotguns incorrectly. Then he came down with stage4 prostrate cancer, spread to his bladder so I have yet to beg him to teach me the right way. I know you can file the bore somehow but with Brit remaining mum we will have to wait for more info? I believe you take just a hair f a file off at a ime from the way you want the pattern moved (file inner tops in your case?). Dont try this on my sayso though......have no REAL clue :idunno:

Don't file in the bore.
File the bottom circumferences between 8&4 o'clock as you look at the muzzles.
That way you can shoulder the gun as you want to.
Whilst many voice caution their comments are fear bound!
Many an English gun is regulated this way and it is reversible.
Do not allow horror stories of bad rifle barrel crowns influence you here!!

Very rarely do Pedersoli doubles shoot where you are looking!

It is not the gasses that steer the shot column, it is the nano second of extra drag on the long side of the muzzle that pulls the shot. Remember that and you remember how to do it!

Dang, I said I was not going to spell it out again

I usually say report back but no one ever does so err don't report back! Not interested in the out come in fact don't do it, you will have cold sweats as all the 'na' sayers words of fearful results resound in your mind!
And to think your descendants arrived on the may flower with out a clue where they would land or if they could survive but mention drawing a file across a muzzle on a shot gun.... :rotf:

B :rotf:

 

[Zonie]

Just so I understand it, your saying, don't touch the bore.

File off a bit of the face of the muzzle in the 4 to 8 o'clock area and this will lower the center of the shot load on the target?

Do you have any rule of thumb amounts that would be something to work towards?
That is, do you have any advice like, "Removing about 1/16" of the face should lower the center of the shot about X inches at 30 yards." ?

Is 1/16" too much? Too little?

This Yankee is curious. :hmm:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Just so I understand it, your saying, don't touch the bore.

File off a bit of the face of the muzzle in the 4 to 8 o'clock area and this will lower the center of the shot load on the target?

Do you have any rule of thumb amounts that would be something to work towards?
That is, do you have any advice like, "Removing about 1/16" of the face should lower the center of the shot about X inches at 30 yards." ?

Is 1/16" too much? Too little?

This Yankee is curious. :hmm:

No sir, removing where stated will raise impact of the shot pattern.

1/16" seems to much. I did my three guns years ago aiming for .030"-0.040" and then test.

I took a good flat file to the pattern plate, well it was paper actually and filed and shot until happy. Then when home dressed and polished the muzzles.
You could not tell anything had happened.

B.

 

[410-er]

Filing does work!
You could also ad a second bead in middle of barrel.When you shoot remember to "stack"the front on top of the middle bead.
Another thing I do is to put my thumb on top of the barrel.I then put the bead on top of my thumb.

 

[Flint62Smoothie]

Whilst many voice caution their comments are fear bound!

Dang, I said I was not going to spell it out again :

Haha ... made you! :thumbsup:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Filing does work!
You could also ad a second bead in middle of barrel.When you shoot remember to "stack"the front on top of the middle bead.
Another thing I do is to put my thumb on top of the barrel.I then put the bead on top of my thumb.

Wing shooting buddy and you won't have time for all that!

 

[Britsmoothy]

:cursing:
I hate doing this topic. I usually end up defending my self for trying to help someone!

B.

 

[ApprenticeBuilder]

:cursing:
I hate doing this topic. I usually end up defending my self for trying to help someone!

B.

Well even if I have not tried it, physics says you'd be a bit foolish to think that it somehow wouldn't work as described.

I thank you very much for sharing this.

Could tell you but won't!
Why?
Because it's long winded to explain and no one has the commitment to do it, except me!

B :hatsoff:

One thing the master I study under made sure I learned and understood early on, " nothing on these contemporary muzzle loaders is sacred ", cut, file, drill, etc. what ever alterations necessary within safe and aesthetic guidelines.

 

[Bo T]

Neat. Perhaps a tad more than a nanosecond of time. I envision the drag along the top of bore acting as a lever to cause the bulk of the shot to rotate upwards a second or two of arc. I shall remember this!

 

[Zonie]

Just so I understand it, your saying, don't touch the bore.

File off a bit of the face of the muzzle in the 4 to 8 o'clock area and this will lower the center of the shot load on the target?

Do you have any rule of thumb amounts that would be something to work towards?
That is, do you have any advice like, "Removing about 1/16" of the face should lower the center of the shot about X inches at 30 yards." ?

Is 1/16" too much? Too little?

This Yankee is curious. :hmm:

No sir, removing where stated will raise impact of the shot pattern.

1/16" seems to much. I did my three guns years ago aiming for .030"-0.040" and then test.

I took a good flat file to the pattern plate, well it was paper actually and filed and shot until happy. Then when home dressed and polished the muzzles.
You could not tell anything had happened.

B.

Well, I'm glad I asked.

I know I'm looking somewhat stupid by dwelling on this but I just want to have everyone understand exactly where the material needs to be removed.

I also assume this will work for moving a pattern left or right?
If so, I could summarize by saying:

Remove the material opposite the direction you want the pattern to move leaving the material untouched in the direction you want the pattern to move.
Move up? = remove material from the bottom of the muzzle.
Move down? = remove material from the top of the muzzle.
Move right? = remove material from the left side of the muzzle (looking down the barrel as if you were shooting the gun).
Move left? = remove material from the right side of the muzzle (looking down the barrel as if you were shooting the gun).

I trust you that this works and it sure sounds less risky than trying to "bend the barrel" as some have suggested.

Thank you.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Just so I understand it, your saying, don't touch the bore.

File off a bit of the face of the muzzle in the 4 to 8 o'clock area and this will lower the center of the shot load on the target?

Do you have any rule of thumb amounts that would be something to work towards?
That is, do you have any advice like, "Removing about 1/16" of the face should lower the center of the shot about X inches at 30 yards." ?

Is 1/16" too much? Too little?

This Yankee is curious. :hmm:

No sir, removing where stated will raise impact of the shot pattern.

1/16" seems to much. I did my three guns years ago aiming for .030"-0.040" and then test.

I took a good flat file to the pattern plate, well it was paper actually and filed and shot until happy. Then when home dressed and polished the muzzles.
You could not tell anything had happened.

B.

Well, I'm glad I asked.

I know I'm looking somewhat stupid by dwelling on this but I just want to have everyone understand exactly where the material needs to be removed.

I also assume this will work for moving a pattern left or right?
If so, I could summarize by saying:

Remove the material opposite the direction you want the pattern to move leaving the material untouched in the direction you want the pattern to move.
Move up? = remove material from the bottom of the muzzle.
Move down? = remove material from the top of the muzzle.
Move right? = remove material from the left side of the muzzle (looking down the barrel as if you were shooting the gun).
Move left? = remove material from the right side of the muzzle (looking down the barrel as if you were shooting the gun).

I trust you that this works and it sure sounds less risky than trying to "bend the barrel" as some have suggested.

Thank you.

Perfectly described :hatsoff:

B.