Question on trajectory

[Walkingeagle]

Hey all, my .50 percussion long rifle shoots deadly with my target load of .490rb/moose milk .018” patch and 60gr Goex 2fg. It has a Rice barrel in B weight swamped with fixed traditional sights. Max load as per Rice is 80gr 2fg. As I am mainly an elk hunter, I feel my target load is too light to fairly take such a tough animal. So... I tried 80gr and although right/left was perfect, impact was 5.5” high at 50 yds. Thinking of working up from 60 in stages now and see what happens, also will try 3fg to about 75gr max. Only other change was a bear greased patch in place of moose milk. In honest opinion from experience, on a broadside to quartering towards shot, what would you consider a minimum load. My self imposed limit is 75 yds.
Thanks
Walk

 

[Eterry]

I think the more important question is what kind of group did you get with your 80gr load?
I think you can hold a Fine bead at 50 yards and be pretty close to poa vs poi with 80grs. Only range time will tell.

My 58 musketoon also hits high at 25 and 50 yards, if i use a full bead sight. If i hold a Fine bead at 25 and 50 yards i hit very close to where I aim. It hits exactly where i aim at 75yards.

I personally think 60grs is too light a load for something the size of elk.

Keep us posted.

 

[Sparkitoff]

I don't have experience with a .50 PRB. I use a .54 with PRB and on the elk I have taken I wish I had more. More velocity for flatter trajectory, more energy and more penetration. I'd take more lead too. I use 80 grains FFFg and I have killed the elk I've shot at (some pass through and some not). So while I have been successful, my psyche is wondering if I should have a "hotter" load. With the 50 and its 75 grain lighter ball I would be really worried, especially if it was kind of slow from 60 grains. Here's where I am going with this... I would consider a .50 PRB with around 1800 FPS the minimum I'd want to use on a bull elk at 75-yards. I'm sure it could work out fine, but you asked what I would "feel" a minimum load was. In my mind I am trying to equate centerfire cartridges to this scenario. I know BP terminal ballistics are not equal to those of a centerfire, but I can draw similarities from bullet weight and velocity. So I'm thinking something like 180 grain @1800-1900 FPS maybe low side of 35 Rem. Yeah, I'd shoot the bull elk at 75-yards with that. At 60 grain I'm not sure of your velocity but I'm now thinking 357 Mag out of rifle. Not so enthused about shooting the same elk with that. Again it a personal level of confidence in equipment but not necessarily hard and true in application.

 

[Walkingeagle]

I don't have experience with a .50 PRB. I use a .54 with PRB and on the elk I have taken I wish I had more. More velocity for flatter trajectory, more energy and more penetration. I'd take more lead too. I use 80 grains FFFg and I have killed the elk I've shot at (some pass through and some not). So while I have been successful, my psyche is wondering if I should have a "hotter" load. With the 50 and its 75 grain lighter ball I would be really worried, especially if it was kind of slow from 60 grains. Here's where I am going with this... I would consider a .50 PRB with around 1800 FPS the minimum I'd want to use on a bull elk at 75-yards. I'm sure it could work out fine, but you asked what I would "feel" a minimum load was. In my mind I am trying to equate centerfire cartridges to this scenario. I know BP terminal ballistics are not equal to those of a centerfire, but I can draw similarities from bullet weight and velocity. So I'm thinking something like 180 grain @1800-1900 FPS maybe low side of 35 Rem. Yeah, I'd shoot the bull elk at 75-yards with that. At 60 grain I'm not sure of your velocity but I'm now thinking 357 Mag out of rifle. Not so enthused about shooting the same elk with that. Again it a personal level of confidence in equipment but not necessarily hard and true in application.

Exactly. My only elk with a muzzleloader was with my .50 GPH and 370gr maxi. Of course it was only 26yds and absolute broadside, but all hunters know that doesn’t happen always. I have taken many elk in my life, maybe close to two dozen since hunting them the past 30 years, with bow and modern unmentionables. I am well aware of their toughness! 60gr is not enough in my opinion. At least not in a .490 prb.
Btw, my rifle groups the 80 gr very well.
Walk

 

[GANGGREEN]

Seems like 80 grains of FFg is a pretty light max load. Not that it won't be adequate under the right circumstance, but I shoot much stouter loads out of B-weight .50 barrels without the slightest concern.

 

[Marinekayak]

I dont want to hijack a thread but on another thread BP hunting was described as bow hunting on steroids. So a prb isnt going to have the energy of a modern HP bullet. I am very much asking too. Light enough and fast enough for full penetration and a good blood trail or slow and heavy for internal damage and energy transfer? Its the same discussion as heavy arrows vs light arrows. I got lucky on my deer this year with my .54 I hit a little high and forward hit the shoulder through the lung and ricochet up into the spine. Im in the heavier more damage camp but I have no real world data to support. But i like the idea or treating a MZL as a bow.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Exactly. My only elk with a muzzleloader was with my .50 GPH and 370gr maxi. Of course it was only 26yds and absolute broadside, but all hunters know that doesn’t happen always. I have taken many elk in my life, maybe close to two dozen since hunting them the past 30 years, with bow and modern unmentionables. I am well aware of their toughness! 60gr is not enough in my opinion. At least not in a .490 prb.
Btw, my rifle groups the 80 gr very well.
Walk

Lol. You know, I forgot about my elk this year. .530 prb over 90 gr 3fg quartering towards at 65 yards. Wasn’t a perfect shot and resulted in tough tracking and follow up. But was successful. Beginning to think the 370gr maxi ball in the GPH is the best option.
Walk

 

[bang]

If it hits on POA at required range and you know the POI at shorter then you know what to do when aiming.

 

[chix2111]

Ever consider a replacement taller front sight? Just a thought. I cut up a silver dollar and made a taller one to fit the elk load in my .54.

 

[hanshi]

I've killed deer with the .50 and 100 grains of 3F, and that load would really shoot. But I now use 70 grains of 3F for 1700 fps and great accuracy. 80 grains of 3F should get you up around 1800 fps, maybe more; with 2F you'd likely need to go up to 90 grains.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Ever consider a replacement taller front sight? Just a thought. I cut up a silver dollar and made a taller one to fit the elk load in my .54.

Not necessary. He just learns where to hold using various charges. Time at the range will program this into his muscle memory.

 

[chix2111]

You hear that Walkingeagle....get with it lol.

 

[Walkingeagle]

Lol. Last thing a shooter needs is to have to adjust sight picture based on load for a certain rifle. Sight picture should be the constant no matter the rifle. Sight in for the chosen load.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Lol. Last thing a shooter needs is to have to adjust sight picture based on load for a certain rifle. Sight picture should be the constant no matter the rifle. Sight in for the chosen load.

Disagree big time. Part of shooting an ml successfully requires learning where it will print under different conditions. Adjusting, charge and hold for different circumstances is just part of the game. Especially with our obsolete rifles and projectiles.

 

[Kansas Jake]

I grew up shooting a 22 at lots of different ranges with fixed sights. Learning to adjust for elevation and windage was part of the game. I didn't really start to shoot at fixed ranges until I was an adult and in my late twenties. I guess do what works for you.

 

[chix2111]

I don't disagree, however it just makes sense to have it so that your normal or "default" sight picture would be an optimal range so that only an out of the ordinary or unexpected range situation would require a high or low hold. In the case of a patched round ball muzzleloader, 50 yards,,,,,,no?

 

[Walkingeagle]

Remember that this gun is primarily my enjoyment gun with a 60 gr charge. Target and rondy.
Walk

 

[brazosland]

Op. Where does it hit at 75? That’s the real question.

5” high at 50? Ok. On an Elk that’s not a big deal. If you don’t know the range to the elk (assuming it’s at 50 or less) just aim a hair low.

I posted a thread Friday about a buck I shot with ball from my .58 M1841. That round ball load hits four inches high at 25 and 6 inches high at 50. Back to four at 75 yards. All with the front sight buried in the rear notch.

I just bury the front sight in the rear sight notch and aim at about an inch up from the bottom of the critter on a broadside shot.

Reduce things to the simplest solution. My real trajectory is 2”. Not 4, 6 or 4.

Don’t over think it. Just get a group you like with a fast load and know what it does at 25/50/75 and have a plan.

 

[azmntman]

Elk as a rule have a very determined will to live. Though my 1st was with a .490 I did shoot it 4 times. I would suggest you bump up to a 385 gr conical if you stick with the .50. .54 or .58 PRB will make a big difference. Will to live though has a large part of your tracking job after the shot. I have had them crumple and have helped track em 1/4 mile on deadly hits. Shot placement matters most but an elk can go a looongg way after being hit. DONT PUSH THEM after the shot, treat like an arrow. Just my .02$$

 

[hanshi]

I sight my deer rifles at about 2" (+/-) at 50 yards. This gives me a "point blank" shot up to 100 yards (rare shot for me). It permits me to use the same sight picture from muzzle contact distance to that 100 yard distance. There's then no need to change the sighting for "Kentucky elevation or windage". If I ever think it might be a tad farther I just aim a little higher with the same sight picture.