question on sharpening with a steel

[rich pierce]

I am wondering about the type and durability of an edge put on a knife using a steel. You know, the old school tapered steel set in a sturdy handle, stropping the butcher knife. That's what my grandpa always did. I picked up a steel this weelend. It has very fine longitudinal striations. It seems to set a real good wire edge the way I am using it, but it does not seem as durable as a honed edge. Is this because of technique, the type of steel I am using, or because "that's how it is"?

 

[rafterob]

A steel is not a "sharpening" tool rather it is an edge "maintenance" tool. It is designed to straighten out or remove nicks in the blade that occur from everyday use. As a Chef of over 30 years I found I would need to sharpen my blades once a month under normal use. Use of a steel to maintain the edge is done frequently during the course of a day. That info is based on constant daily use so a good sharpening on a recreational use knife should last quite awhile with an occaisional swipe on the steel (as felt necessary) during use.

 

[necchi]

Ghetto said it, and like your experiance here it's justa "maintenance" thing.

I can only get by useing a steel for awhile to keep an edge too, then I want to go hone it back to a proper angle.

Handi too have, but not what I call a "sharpening" tool.

 

[crockett]

Ditto- to reset the edge.

 

[hoochiepapa]

I use the diamond ones, and if you can get the fine one, it will put a fine edge on your knife. I go back to the stone once in a while, just to keep in practice, and the diamond one doesn't do the point too well-rounds it off.
I carry the diamond while hunting, will keep an edge on my hunting knife.

 

[David W.]

The angle used to hone an edge with a steel is just a little more than the edge on the blade. If your edge is 18 Deg, you should steel it at about 20 deg and do it lightly without a lot of pressure.

 

[Bill Hall]

I agree with everyone else. Since a steel has no abrasiveness to it, you can think of it as a "burnisher", it just compresses the metal to straighten out and shape the very edge. Stones, ceramics, and even that diamond steel are abrasive, and can be used to grind and shape the basic wider edge. I have even used the diamond steel on a brand new knives, honing a wide, and very sharp edge. Bill

P.S. I haven't owned a store bought steel in years. I found a screwdriver with a smooth shank works just as well.

 

[crockett]

I think we have two different things. A ceramic stick will remove metal so it is a hone- and I've had pretty good luck with some. A steel is used mostly to straighten an edge. I think years ago a lot of butchers, etc didn't like a knife that was too "hard" to resharpen. When they used these type knives and they hit bone, etc- the edge became sort of wavy and they didn't cut as well. They had not really worn to a dull edge. Hence the steel- a few strokes set the edge straight again and made them cut better.

 

[rich pierce]

Thanks all for your responses. Just to complicate things, the steel I am using has fine longitudinal lines on it like a finely cut file and so it does remove metal. Probably what I am getting with THIS STEEL is not burnishing at all.

I am not sure I got my original question answered, but I have probably figured it out with your help.

I started with 6 knives with a dull edges. Some were kitchen knives, some were folding pocket knives, and one was a sheath knife. All had the edges established and were previously sharpened using stones, but through routine use, became moderately dull. My wife would not notice much, but lets say they would not slice paper hanging in the air cleanly. When I then touched them up with THIS PARTICULAR STEEL that has very fine longitudinal lines on it like a very fine cut file, I get a very sharp knife but the edge does not seem to last as long as if I had sharpened the knives with successively finer stones. The edge is quickly re-established with 6-8 strokes of THIS STEEL with striations.

In THIS CASE I think the fine striations on the steel are putting micro-teeth on the edge and these are quickly dulled or bent and quickly re-established.

 

[David W.]

In THIS CASE I think the fine striations on the steel are putting micro-teeth on the edge and these are quickly dulled or bent and quickly re-established.

You are correct. I tried to answer your question, but I may have not said it correctly. I have a serrated steel as well. The serrated steel does hone or put teeth on the edge. However, I use water stones from 220 to 8000 grit to obtain the edge. I only use the steel to keep a hone on my kitchen tools while I am working. Leather and wood tools are a different story. Then I use a strop.

To slice paper like you want, there are different solutions. The Norton Portable Water Stone sharpening kit, and there is the Edge Pro Knife sharpener. With the Norton, it takes a little more skill. The Edge Pro will put exact angles, making your cutting tools able to slice paper as you stated. I have the Norton set up. Of course, the steel on your knives being able to make and keep an edge depends on the quality of steel used. Some stainless steels are not so good, especially the one's stamped "Made in China".

 

[crockett]

I agree-the rough, ragged edge that cuts like a saw- actually for a lot of work- that's okay. To hone to a true razor's edge can be a lot of work. I always have to end up stropping the edge on a leather covered board. For routine camp chores just a plain old, thin bladed butcher knife- or similar type blade is really hard to beat. True- the edge won't stand up like a blade made from state-of-the-art steel but the resharpening is quick and easy. The only problem with such knives is you will wear them out over the years- you see some old butcher knives that look more like a fillet knife.
I've been told- and it's probably true, that the Indians used files to sharpen knives and they often just sharpened one side. Sharpening just one side reduces the bevel in half so you have a really thin edge that cuts pretty good. The Indians claimed that the one sided sharpening also reduced putting a nick in the hide of an animal being skinned. Could be true. The Japanese knives are often sharpened on just one side. Sushi knives are sharpened that way. In any event using a file is PC.

 

[rich pierce]

I've read that about Native Americans and wondered if their embracing sharpening knives with a file was a carry-over from their use of flint knives which had serrated edges, or whether it was just a matter of having a simple lightweight tool for sharpening as opposed to stones. I know that many modern knives are hardened beyond what is comfortable to sharpen with a file unless the file is "new-ish" and suspect that sharpening was a more regular occurrence in the 18th century.

 

[paulvallandigham]

The steels that have any kind of texture- grooves, swirls, lines, etc-- make any knife edge into a SAW, with TEETH, and not a find splitting edge. Its immediately obvious by a close look at the blade after use with any soft materials( paper envelopes, raw meat, etc.). You will find bits of the substance cut stuck to the edge(teeth) of the knife.

With a properly sharpened and maintained KNIFE edge, you will cut smoothly and cleanly and find NO materials hanging on the edge. The knife does the work- not your muscles. A knife edge "SPLITS" the material, rather than chipping away at it as a saw is designed to do.

USE a very SMOOTH STEEL to keep the thin edge FLAT, and even down its entire length, so that the blade does Not drag cutting through meat, for instance. For letter openers, we use a much wider angle for the edge, so that there is a stiff backing to keep the edge straight as you cut paper. Paper has a fine granite powder in its surface to aid in transferring Graphite( Pencil "lead") or INK ( pens) to the paper.It will dull a fine edge quickly, and I don't recommend using a knife that you spent considerable time honing to a fine edge to open envelopes, or cardboard boxes!

I have done both, more times than I want to admit, but I also have my own stones, and have been sharpening knives for more than 50 years, now. Sometimes you have no choice but to use the tools you have at hand. When you have put in the time learning how to put a razor edge on a knife, however, it screams at you, " Don't do this to me!" :surrender: every time you knowing use that razor for something it was not meant to cut.

A Knife should do its work with its weight, and a STROKE.

A SAW does its work with a back and forth "sawing" motion, because its "edge?" consists of a number of small chisels off-set to one side or another, to chip out bits of material.

If you could weld or lock together a series of chisels, all the same size, you would get an instrument similar to what a modern saw does today, but without the kerf.

 

[crockett]

If I recall the source- around 1870 a greenhorn was in AZ (I think) and had a big hunk-a-hunk of steeel knife he couldn't re-sharpen and an Apache told him it was the wrong knife- get a thin bladed knife that was easy to re-sharpen.
Today's custom makers obviously can't make and charge for knives that wear out quickly so they use state of the art steel- chop down a tree and still shave hairs off your arms- impressive, I agree but we want to re-create what was.
The trade lists have quite a few files on them- more than you might think. I guess one issue is whether only Indians used them or the Europeans used them as well- to sharpen a knife. I have nothing on that aspect.

 

[ronrryan]

Google "knife sharpening". Lots of good advice here, lots more there. Good smoke, Ron in FL