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Question for Blacksmith/metallurgy folks

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zimmerstutzen

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I happened upon a very old treadle lathe for turning wood. I am building a fly wheel for it (old one missing) I am also hoping to forge out some old style tools for lathe chisels/knives. My only experience forging was junior high school making a cold chisel and about 20 years ago I forged some simple brackets for a cannon build. What I want to make is relatively simple. I have few pieces of steel rod. One is O1 steel from a supply house. They still use these old style tools in Germany and eastern Europe in production factories. I offerred to pay some blacksmiths to make the edge and got no takers. They would not even give me a price. So I am going to try it myself. Can somebody give me a step by step for hardening and then tempering. A picture of the tool is here:
 
I suggest "The Making of Tools" or "The Modern Blacksmith," both by Weygers. Everybody's grandfather was a blacksmith (including mine) and no process is surrounded by more pure baloney than that of hardening and tempering. They were mostly farriers...
 
I would use a Mapp torch and a small magnet. Heat the steel until it becomes non magnetic and then quench in cooking oil, peanut, canola, etc. Use an old toaster oven not the kitchen oven, saves fights with the boss, set oven to 400 degrees and leave it in there for a couple of hours.
 
I tried for a bit this afternoon. Just couldn't get enough heat out of a propane torch. I have an old smoker grill and and air compressor . I get a charcoal fire going in the grill and attack a piece of pipe to the air chuck and point that into the side hole of the grill. That ought to get it plenty hot. I have a Cat 2 draw bar from an old farm tractor to use as an anvil.
 
I tried for a bit this afternoon. Just couldn't get enough heat out of a propane torch. I have an old smoker grill and and air compressor . I get a charcoal fire going in the grill and attack a piece of pipe to the air chuck and point that into the side hole of the grill. That ought to get it plenty hot. I have a Cat 2 draw bar from an old farm tractor to use as an anvil.

Yep, Propane will not usually work, that's why Bud mentioned a MAPP gas torch, that gives off higher heat.

If that is not enough heat and you don't want to bother with renting gas tanks for an oxy/acetylene torch, then I suggest a BernzOmatic Oxy & MAPP Gas Torch Kit. I used one for over 20 years hardening lock parts and even doing high Temp Silver Soldering. Note: I do suggest using plumber's tape for gas lines on the threads of the bottles AND the oxygen bottles seem to leak out remaining gas if you let them sit for a few days. Still, I found this kit VERY good to use at home for guns and especially when I fixed guns twice a year at the North South Skirmish Association National Matches. The price quoted in the link is LOW from what I found in the Richmond, VA area, though. I paid about $90.00 for my new set about a year ago and that was the lowest local price.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/BernzOmatic-Cutting-Welding-and-Brazing-Torch-Kit/50126405

Gus
 
I have a Cat 2 draw bar from an old farm tractor to use as an anvil.
Excellent. If possible, orient with the largest mass under your work. Example, the edge is better than the top or bottom faces and the end is better than the edge. Only a small face is needed, the mass directly underneath where you strike is what resists your blows. Charcoal is an ancient and excellent forge fuel, coal is a modern substitute. Natural charcoal is preferred over briquettes. Charcoal requires much less air than coal and if Weygers doesn't have an idea for you, try your hair dryer in a manner that allows regulating the draft. I've heard of inflators being used, too.
 
I tried for a bit this afternoon. Just couldn't get enough heat out of a propane torch. I have an old smoker grill and and air compressor . I get a charcoal fire going in the grill and attack a piece of pipe to the air chuck and point that into the side hole of the grill. That ought to get it plenty hot. I have a Cat 2 draw bar from an old farm tractor to use as an anvil.

AH,AH, be careful zimmerstutzen, the bug will bite you. There are many color charts for temperature of metal. I have a infra red thermometer, but the old magnet trick works for beginners. Watch the metal and don't let it get sparkly white hot in the forge for your project. If you can, use natural charcoal, not the bricks.
I like to use old files for cutting tools. The iron I like to use is the steel tire that was around old wooden wagon wheels.
The treadle lathe sounds interesting
 
If you are planning on doing a lot of forging, google solid fuel forges, specifically a JBOD (just a box of dirt) designed by Charles Stevens. If you are frugal, it shouldn't cost you any more than a MAPP torch set up. And it will be cheaper to operate and will work better. I think you will need to go a bit above critical for the quench on O1.
 
01 should be forged in the range of 1600°F. A bit higher than most common steels. If making an edged tool, you need to go higher than non-magnetic for the quench. Non-magnetic is 1414°F. Not a good quench temp for any blade steel. "Critical heat" is often a misused term, and not the non-magnetic heat as many believe. Some steels have different critical heats, which is actually the industry recommended heat range for quenching a particular steel. You need about 1475° for 01 and most all other common high carbon steels. Common table salt melts at 1474 if you can make use of that as a guide. To be at it's best, 01 needs about a 15 to 20 minute soak at quench temp, but should be OK enough for your purpose without a soak. You can quench in ATF if you use a vapor mask or other protection, or you can use most any common cooking oil except canola. Even mineral oil will work well with 01. Canola oil is a little too fast and could possibly cause cracking. Warm your quench oil to about 130°. With 01, if you get a warp from the quench, you have window of about 5/6 minutes to hand straighten wearing gloves or other protection. I have been able to tweak slight warps as long as 10/12 minutes out of quench, and bare handed.
 
Can't help with the hardening part. But, I lathe turn wood and have made a few of my own tools. My method would make a real bladesmith or tool maker vomit. Usually using just plain mild steel rod I'll pound until sorta the shape I want then heat as hot as possible with a propane torch, quench in water, sharpen and use. No special quench juice, no mantras, no tempering. Works for me.
The treadle lathe will work but is a lot of physical effort. I have a friend who uses one and he makes his living turning toy tops with it.
 

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