Pyrodex Cleaning issues?

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Mean Gene

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I have used pyrodex ever since I started shooting muzzleloaders in the 90's, cleaning with soap and water has always worked for me.
I use some Balistol in the barrel before leaving the range and that helps soften up the fouling and prevent things from getting out of hand.
 

Dphar1950

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I have done testing. I have used the stuff in company guns. I have examined guns used with the stuff. I have had people I trust tell me things. LIke the freind who knows how, who shot the stuff in an original 1869 Springfield and it took a YEAR to get the after rust stopped. Finally pulled it from the wood and went into the shower washed it well and got the rust stopped. Its simply not possible to say "they did not clean it properly" and write off the problem to this. Simply wiping a time or 3 in the course of a long match will eat the blue from the inside of a hot tank blued barrel and set up a pit and then its almost unstoppable. The active ingredient in the old corrosive primers was a fraction of a grain. In this stuff it's 15 to 40% of the charge weight. As I have stated before. I have never examined a rifle shot with the stuff that I could not tell what propellant was used simply by looking. The interesting part is many of the owners don't even see the pits until they are pointed to saying "this is pitting". Yeah, BTDT. AND it does not even LOOK the same as neglected arms used with BP. I have been shooting BP firearms since the mid-1960s. Building MLs since the late 60s. I can count the corroded barrels used with BP on one hand. I cannot say the same for arms used with the stuff under discussion here. Remember when it first came out the firearms press, some gunwriters, were touting it as NON-CORROSIVE. I am sure tens of thousands of guns were ruined as a result based on what a friend working in a California gun shop at the time told me. A builder from Europe wrote of taking a barrel to the proof house and mentioning P-dex and the men in the proof house told him it "would eat holes in the barrel". EVERY substitute powder I know of is a remake or is based on a 19th c powder that was abandoned for various reason. Sugar powder for example, and it been made in recent times. It will suck up water to the point the liquid can be poured from a horn or flask or will drip form it while hanging in the shooters house. Highly corrosive mixtures that, like the stuff being mentioned here, were too aggressive for use. But since BP is labeled a class A explosive its increasingly hard to find and people use alternatives since they cannot be bothered or don't know they can order BP and have it shipped to them.
So if you doubt me? Go the hardware store or welding shop and get a flat bar of steel 1-2" wide. Only need be a 12"-18" long. Degrease and polish it well on one surface so its nice and clean. Put a sheet of paper over one end and flash a small amount 10 gr perhaps, of P-dex on one end, cover this fouling with a sheet of paper (its to prevent cross contamination) and flash 10 gr of real BP on the other end. Now simply put it on a shelf for 2 weeks or so. Then take some photos and let us know how it came out. Yeah I did this almost 40 years ago. I KNOW what will happen.
 

Walkingeagle

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Do we perform our cleaning regime to the flat bar after flashing the powders, prior to the two week test?
Please remember that flat bar and barrel steel(s) are likely different, so not really valid comparison. Lastly please also know that all this push to not use is only valid where real black is available or economic. Here Goex runs $49 per pound.
Walk
 

mooman76

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I guess I have some kind of magic cleaning method then. Dphar1950, you said you got it to stop by washing in a shower. Isn't that contradictory? If someone cleans it properly and there is no residue, how is it, it continues to corrode the metal?
 
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Dphar1950

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People might want to read my posts with a little more care before making snide remarks. Snide remarks cannot change facts I might also add.
 

Big Mountain

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Living in Arizona helps since the hunidity is so low. Also when BP fouling is white it is barely corrosive if at all since it contains little water. Thats why its hard and won't wipe away easily. Fouling from the perchlorate will suck up water at any percentage in the air. BP fouling also sucks up water from the air at percentages over +-30. But the fouling will not attack the metal in the way the perchlorate fouling will even when wet.
Yeah but try to do that in a wet and humid environment like western North Carolina and even residue from not rinsing the barrel, after cleaning will corrode a barrel quick...

Always treat all b-p and p-dex like it’s corrosive.
 

wb78963

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Ladies and Gentlemen,
I would as soon shoot stainless steel balls and clean with battery acid as use that "rust in a bottle" stuff Pyrodex or its cousin 777 The exception is American Pioneer Powder in cap guns.
Go to the Cowboy Action Forum and see the article on Cleaning after Shooting Pyrodex of 777.
This link may work or copy and paste.
I don't like the "P" stuff, don't use it, don't like it, don't recommend it.
cordially
Bunk
 

bang

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Treat all as corosive. After shooting I wet patch with soapy water. Dry patch then sopping wet soapy water and bag it for home then a proper cleaning followed by oil patch. Been using Pyrodex over 20 years no problem.
 

rodwha

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Here’s a test conducted years back in a humid garage. This was after 4 days sitting and cleaned with a wire brush with the exception of T7. T7 is nowhere near as corrosive as you can see.



It’s not easy to tell but there is mild corrosion on the T7 piece of steel. It’s not quite pristine but he said it was rather close.
 

Carbon 6

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Ladies and Gentlemen,
I would as soon shoot stainless steel balls and clean with battery acid as use that "rust in a bottle" stuff Pyrodex or its cousin 777 The exception is American Pioneer Powder in cap guns.
Go to the Cowboy Action Forum and see the article on Cleaning after Shooting Pyrodex of 777.
This link may work or copy and paste.
I don't like the "P" stuff, don't use it, don't like it, don't recommend it.
cordially
Bunk
I once gave a "monkey wrench" to a real live monkey. It did not end well either.

I have used Pyrodex and 777 without any major problems, although I immensely prefer real black powder.
It's been my experience that many people do not know how to clean their guns, and this is the real cause of Pyrodex/777 problems.
 

mooman76

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I again agree with Carbon 6. Morel is don't wait 4 days, clean and clean well as soon as possible, no longer than 24 hours at least. I have used Pyrodex for almost 40 years now with no ill effects. I also prefer the real stuff and use it now but still have some Pyrodex left. Being a penny pincher from way back, can't bring myself to throw away what little I have left.
 

Carbon 6

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Morel is don't wait 4 days, clean and clean well as soon as possible, no longer than 24 hours at least
I have found that regardless of what powder you shoot, the quicker you clean your gun the more beneficial it is. This is especially true with chlorate or acid based powders.
I have found that cleaning immediately after the shot or the shooting session is the best practice. Time is your biggest enemy and it's the easiest to control.
Damage from rust, corrosion or pitting takes place long before it becomes noticeable, the chemical reaction starts the moment you pull the trigger. From there on it's all about time.
 

mooman76

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I have found that when using wonder lube or Natural Lube 1000 the coating helps keep corrosion down. They do have those claims even though I do not trust them completely. I don't use it on a regular but I use it for my last couple shots and the range and I believe it helps until I get home to do a proper cleaning.
 

n.h.schmidt

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Man Talk about wildly different results. I live in eastern Iowa.Temperate ,you can grow anything here. I do shoot real black and pyrodex. I score targets at a local BP match. I shoot pyrodex in the matches. If I use real black ,I have to clean between shots and I will not time to score targets. The flame path will also clog up with about ten shots with real black. I'm not having any problems with pyrodex . I do clean with water and window cleaner. Also flush with plain water. Dry really well and use full strength Ballistall. I also use home made percussion caps.Very corrosive.About like the old made in Italy caps from the 70s. With them you could watch the bore turn brown . You had to develop good cleaning with them. Or else
n.h.schmidt
 

Carbon 6

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I have found that when using wonder lube or Natural Lube 1000 the coating helps keep corrosion down. They do have those claims even though I do not trust them completely. I don't use it on a regular but I use it for my last couple shots and the range and I believe it helps until I get home to do a proper cleaning.
Once again the problem is time and the difference in perception of that belief from one person to the next.
Shooting time, time of application, travel time, cleaning time, and perceived benefit are all variables just to name a few. While it may seem to work for you, it could be disastrous for the next guy.

Instead I would advocate for a field cleaning. Field cleaning can remove most of the corrosive fouling and begins neutralization. Once home full cleaning can proceed.
My preference is to clean right there on the pot, so when I get home, it's "Miller Time".

I know your method works for you, I too once did something similar. If what a person is doing is working, then there is little reason to justify changing it, but if someone is having problems, then they should look at their methods.
 

Carbon 6

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I shoot pyrodex in the matches. If I use real black ,I have to clean between shots and I will not time to score targets.
I too used Pyrodex for match shooting, largely because it was easier to get at the time. but Pyrodex does have some advantages.

Flame channel blocking when wiping between shots and using real black powder, can easily be overcome. You just need to change how you wipe and/or what lube you use.
 

Rum River

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When I coached 4-H the use of Pyrodex was mandatory - no other propellant allowed. I inherited the maintenance of rifles whose overall condition was "compromised" shall we say?

The correct procedure was known by my predecessors, but execution had failed dramatically - most commonly because weekly practice ran too late. In the gathering darkness the water was cold, dish soap forgotten, toothbrush lost, plus a whole lot of "the mosquitoes are awful, I'll do it later".

"Later" never came.

We went over to cleaning with one part Ballistol to ten parts water in a $2 pumper bottle from the hardware store - didn't need hot water. Darkness - I'll move my car and turn on the headlights. A toothbrush was duct taped to the shooter's hand so it never hit the ground. As to the mosquitoes - shooters were told that unless the Minnesota State Bird was big enough to have woodticks attached they had better get over using lame excuses.

The point I'm slowly making is that as long as there's a cleaning routine taking place right after shooting - things will work out okay.
 

Archer 756

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:ghostly: Just a note that it seems everyone miss, when cleaning with water one should use boiling hot water with soup and also with clean fusing water
 
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