Pyrodex “P” High Pressure Cylinder Over Rotation…..

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Tenring

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That’s a good idea, Have a good amount of BP and Caps but I should stock up on a few pounds of Pyro -P because Cabelas has it for 23.95 and you know in a few months this price will not stay like this even if they have it at all. The only reason I say Cabelas is there an hour away and I don’t have to pay shipping or hazmat for a change.
 

45man

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Most do not understand the pressure from a cap or primer pushing the hammer back. We took videos of modern revolvers to see even a SA has the hammer near full cock. Pressures are lower with BP of course but a large nipple hole will do funny things.
This was a big problem with the new S&W 500 because if the gun is fully loaded and a shot fired, the cylinder stop would unlock, the cylinder would spin backwards and double when you are still in recoil.. S&W blamed the operator when I informed them the stop spring was too weak but now they offer stronger springs. The cylinder stop on the S&W is prone to inertia so the spring must be strong.
It is funny to see it on a caplock since mainsprings are so strong but the hammer will come back if the hole is worn.
 

TrapperDude

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Most do not understand the pressure from a cap or primer pushing the hammer back. We took videos of modern revolvers to see even a SA has the hammer near full cock. Pressures are lower with BP of course but a large nipple hole will do funny things.
This was a big problem with the new S&W 500 because if the gun is fully loaded and a shot fired, the cylinder stop would unlock, the cylinder would spin backwards and double when you are still in recoil.. S&W blamed the operator when I informed them the stop spring was too weak but now they offer stronger springs. The cylinder stop on the S&W is prone to inertia so the spring must be strong.
It is funny to see it on a caplock since mainsprings are so strong but the hammer will come back if the hole is worn.
That must be what's happening when you see videos of people shooting the 500 S&W Magnum, and it looks like they bump fire them.
 

Tenring

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45man This is exactly what is going on with a full Pyro powder charge, It’s like the cylinder stop is not holding at that split second and wants to minutely jump time if this is the right terminology as to what is going on. Pressure is a brutal action.
 

45D

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Ummmmmm . . . I believe I mentioned the bolt spring tension back on post #5. Not to mention a cap post install (which is always a good thing on open top cap guns) which will stop any rearward movement propelled by blow back if "blow back" is indeed the problem.

Mike
 

TrapperDude

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Ummmmmm . . . I believe I mentioned the bolt spring tension back on post #5. Not to mention a cap post install (which is always a good thing on open top cap guns) which will stop any rearward movement propelled by blow back if "blow back" is indeed the problem.

Mike
What's a cap post?
 

Tenring

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The tension on the spring is probably to blame as well, but a cap post I don’t know.
 

45D

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20211006_210220.jpg


The cap post is a s.s. post screwed into the mid. of the hammer slot just behind and aligned with the nipple. It is fitted to the size of the existing slot in the hammer face so there's no reduction of face surface. If a spent cap or frag gets embedded in the slot, the post will remove it and keep it from falling into the action. As you can see, this revolver also has an action shield installed just in case anything gets past the post. If that happens, all you need to do is turn the revolver upside down and the debris will fall out. It also keeps blowback fouling out of the action . . . which is packed with Mobil1 grease.
 

Tenring

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Is that press fit or screwed in, Would make a world of difference In these open tops. is there any drawback to this.
 

Tenring

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I see it says screwed in , I should have read the post first instead of just viewing the picture. The action shield is way nice also.
 
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45D

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Thanks! The cap post (cap rake) has been common in the CAS community for quite some time. They make cap jams pretty much a thing of the past. The action shield is a little newer. I came up with my version a few yrs ago mainly to keep caps/ frags out of the action. It has a "hook" that keeps presenting any debris each time the hammer is drawn which allows you to "dump" it. Just as important, it keeps dirt and fouling out of the action as well and keeps the action much more sanitary. I tell my competition shooters to check the action once a year. The average casual shooter maybe every couple of years. It makes cleaning the action unnecessary (if packed with Mobil 1).

Mike
 

Red Owl

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I may be wrong but on a cartridge versus a cap and ball. The passage from the nipple to the chamber remains open so gas, etc. can push back. On the brass case, it expands against the walls of the chamber temporarily and then shrinks back but while the bullet is on it's way there is a gas tight seal. I don't think the percussion cap has any sort of seal but maybe I'm wrong.
 

Tenring

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45D It sounds like you do the build and install yourself with the Cap Post and Action Shield. What do you charge for parts and labor .
 

TrapperDude

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Thanks! The cap post (cap rake) has been common in the CAS community for quite some time. They make cap jams pretty much a thing of the past. The action shield is a little newer. I came up with my version a few yrs ago mainly to keep caps/ frags out of the action. It has a "hook" that keeps presenting any debris each time the hammer is drawn which allows you to "dump" it. Just as important, it keeps dirt and fouling out of the action as well and keeps the action much more sanitary. I tell my competition shooters to check the action once a year. The average casual shooter maybe every couple of years. It makes cleaning the action unnecessary (if packed with Mobil 1).

Mike
I have a Remington, so I don't have the same experience with cap jams like you are talking about. Do the caps end up sticking in the notch on the hammer face when they blow up, so you can't pull the hammer back? When my caps blow up, they just fall out to the side as I pull the hammer back and the cylinder rotates.

When I can get an 1860 Army, I'll need to know these kinds of things.
 

Tenring

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The face of the hammer grips the spent smashed primer just enough to hold on to it until it drops down in the action, that is why the post that is threaded in the hammer slot in his picture keeps the primer from falling into the action, I just wished colt would have just made them like that from the factory in the first place.
 

TrapperDude

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The face of the hammer grips the spent smashed primer just enough to hold on to it until it drops down in the action, that is why the post that is threaded in the hammer slot in his picture keeps the primer from falling into the action, I just wished colt would have just made them like that from the factory in the first place.
Ah, so a cap jam isn't just a matter of the blown cap binding between the cylinder and frame, then? It's actually a jam of the internals from the cap falling in when the hammer's drawn back?
 
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Tenring

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It’s amazing how these guns work, caps can jam in the guts of the revolver , snag on the hammer face, get caught between the frame and cylinder, and people wonder how you would have survived the civil war with these colts but the caps back then were made of what they called Foil Caps so I guess if they got snagged the cap would just give and disintegrate for the most part I would imagine, or mash flat..
 

TrapperDude

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It’s amazing how these guns work, caps can jam in the guts of the revolver , snag on the hammer face, get caught between the frame and cylinder, and people wonder how you would have survived the civil war with these colts but the caps back then were made of what they called Foil Caps so I guess if they got snagged the cap would just give and disintegrate for the most part I would imagine, or mash flat..
It's either that, or they were made of a heavier guage metal so they wouldn't blow apart or crush into the hammer face.

If those things happened, causing malfunctions, they would have fixed those issues. People relied on their pistols, and there were innovators who were more than willing to make needed changes to make better products throughout the cap and ball era. That's what leads me to think that we have slightly different caps from what they used to use.
 

Tenring

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Very well could be, It would be nice to find an original. There has to be some in this world some where So as to do a study on them.
 

Boston Bill

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Most do not understand the pressure from a cap or primer pushing the hammer back. We took videos of modern revolvers to see even a SA has the hammer near full cock. Pressures are lower with BP of course but a large nipple hole will do funny things.
This was a big problem with the new S&W 500 because if the gun is fully loaded and a shot fired, the cylinder stop would unlock, the cylinder would spin backwards and double when you are still in recoil.. S&W blamed the operator when I informed them the stop spring was too weak but now they offer stronger springs. The cylinder stop on the S&W is prone to inertia so the spring must be strong.
It is funny to see it on a caplock since mainsprings are so strong but the hammer will come back if the hole is worn.
I would love to make some loads on the lighter side for that cannon!
 
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