Pulling A Drum

[nkbj]

Has anyone pulled a drum off of a Traditions rifle?
What's the best way to go about it?

 

[Little Wattsy]

Did offa CVA once...Used a pipe wrench. Of course I was replaceing it with a new one... :wink:

 

[longcruise]

What Wattsy said; if you are replacing it just go at it with a full leverage tool like a pipe wrench or vice grips. That's what I did to and then replaced it with a drum that had a square on the end to fit the wrench.

Why do you want to take it off??

 

[BrownBear]

Let's be reeeeally keerful about terms here. Do you mean a drum bolster or the breech plug? Two differnt critters, and drum bolsters won't be needing pipe wrenches and vise grips. I'm only acquainted with the Crockett which doesn't have a drum, but I'm not going to make the assumption that the other models don't either.

 

[nkbj]

The drum, not the breech.
In answer to the previous quaestion,the percusssion and flint barrels appear to be identical with the exception of what's screwed in the hole. I want to find out if they are. Haven't figured out a better way to find out than to look.

 

[Zonie]

Unless your drum needs replacing, don't mess with it.

There is no good reason IMO for removing a drum if it is working like it should.
Now, if the nipple threads are worn out or stripped, that would be a good reason to replace it but "curiosity killed the cat" and it could mess up a otherwise good gun.

For the record, I believe the drum is similar to the old CVA sidelocks drum and it screws almost completely thru the barrels breech plug.

If it has been in there for a number of years the threads very likely have rusted a bit which will make a pipe wrench about the only tool that can apply enough torque to remove it.

That of course will put big tooth bites into it.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Unless your drum needs replacing, don't mess with it.

There is no good reason IMO for removing a drum if it is working like it should.
Now, if the nipple threads are worn out or stripped, that would be a good reason to replace it but "curiosity killed the cat" and it could mess up a otherwise good gun.

For the record, I believe the drum is similar to the old CVA sidelocks drum and it screws almost completely thru the barrels breech plug.

If it has been in there for a number of years the threads very likely have rusted a bit which will make a pipe wrench about the only tool that can apply enough torque to remove it.

That of course will put big tooth bites into it.

Yep. exactly. Thats correct! :thumbsup:

 

[gordy]

I have to agree with Zonie on this one! Unless there is damage to the drum that would make it unservisable , don't disturb it. I see by yorpost that you have an interest to know if you can do a flintlock conversion using the exsisting baffel, the answer is yes.The drum is replaced by a vent liner and the lock changed to flint. This all sounds simple enough, but CVA used 4 different length drums over the years and to function properly MIGHT require a little work with a file or small grinder (dremel tool) on the inside of the breech plug. CVA used to sell a Hawkens style weapon that you could swap back and forth from cap lock to flint. They only sold this set-up for a shot time. My advice would be don't pull the drum untill you are ready with the parts on hand to do the conversion. Good luck :thumbsup:

 

[misher]

I believe the TOTW catalog says never to take them off.

 

[longcruise]

Do you mean a drum bolster or the breech plug? Two differnt critters, and drum bolsters won't be needing pipe wrenches and vise grips.

Speaking of the powder drum (not patent breech), the cva and traditions have a drum with no wrench square on the end of it. A new one looks like the one on the right in this pic Link You turn it in with a wrench (piepe wrench or vise grips) around the round end then when done cut it off at the scored ring on the drum. Gotta use a brutal took to get it back out and it does pretty much ruin it.

 

[nkbj]

Ah, I see that the thunderstorm eliminated my attempt to reply.
Thanks Marmotslayer for the info. I see that disposable gripping end on the bolster. Looks as though it will not be a simple matter to ascertain whether or not the existing threads are compatable with a commercially available flash hole liner. It could be a metric version of NPT for all I know. The Traditions web sight is certainly not a fount of information but it was obvious that the drums are not replacement parts.
The last time I had a small bore comparable to the Shenandoah the drum was easily removable. This one appears to be engineered by intent to prevent same.

 

[MikeChapin]

The drum on a Traditions and CVA is threaded through the breechplug rather than threaded into the side of the barrel like most. Also the interior threads are much larger than any touch hole liner you can buy. You would have to machine a new one out of threaded stock.

The only easy conversions I have done is to cut the drum off and file it flush with the barrel. Drill and tap the flash hole to fit a standard 1/4 x 28 touch hole liner.

 

[paulvallandigham]

you can use an open end, or box wrench of the proper size to move these drums, but if you have to use a pipe wrench, cover the teeth with 1/8" thick sheet aluminum, to protect the drum from the "teeth". Also, you may need to use a pipe "extension" to any other kind of wrench to give you the leverage, or "torque" to move that drum. I have used a 3 foot length of water pipe as a " Come-along " on several such projects with success.

You are less likely to twist the plug or barrel with the extension, than if you try to muscle it with just the standard length wrench handle- even on some of the big Pipe wrenches.

Soak the barrel in penetrating oil, like Break-free, or Kroil, or Liquid Wrench for a couple of days to eat that rust that might be in the threads. Don't be in a rush to remove that plug too soon. Give the chemistry time to work. :thumbsup:

 

[longcruise]

I want to find out if they are. Haven't figured out a better way to find out than to look.

Here are a couple of pics that might help you.

Drum

same drum different angle

This is from a CVA. The Traditions is done the same way. As previously stated above, the breech plug is very long and is counterbored. The plug is threaded through the side of the barrel and the side of the plug so that the end of the drum termintates in the counterbore of the drum.

Notice the angular channel (for lack of better word??) that is filed into the end of the plug. This angular cut lines up with the counterbore in the breech plug. IOW, it faces forward. This creates a continuous right angle turn for the flash channel if you consider the counter bore and the drum flash passage as the flash channel.

Also notice how beat up the drum is from being removed with vice grips. I made no effort to save this drum because someone had tried to change the nipple to hammer alignment by a fraction of an inch by rotating the drum to tighten it just a bit. They used the nipple to gain leverage for whatever tool they used and ripped the nipple part way out of it's threads in the drum.

It is metric and I got a replacement from either TOW or Deer Creek Rifle Works. Don't remember which. Neither do I remeber the thread pitch.

As you can see, the threaded portion is quite long. Partly because this came out of a 1" barrel. Yours would be shorter.

It don't know what to tell you about the flint conversion. It might work fine but then again, the channel that the powder must follow, including the 90 degree turn could result in the powder being quite far from the flash hole.

I'm not very knowledgeable on flinters so I'll leave the speculation on that to the experts.

A few things are obvious though. If you can get a flash hole liner threaded the same as the drum you could do it easily. If you just cut off the drum flush with the barrel you will have a very large flash hole and would have to tap the drum channel for an even smaller flash hole liner.

If you do remove your drum you will probably need a new one to replace it unless you can get it off without damage. ACtually, the one in the pics above could have been re-used if it weren't for the damage to the nipple threads. But, things don't always go back together the way you expect! :shocked2: If you replace it with new, you will have to determine the correct length for the threaded portion and file it to length and then use a rat tail file to put the angular cut into the end of the threaded portion. In order to get the angle and position right you will have to screw in the new plug tight, mark it so as to know what angle to file the groove, remove and file and then replace.

The other thing is that if you get a drum already tapped and threaded for a nipple you introduce the "timing" of the drum replacement so the hammer lines up with the nipple which is a 'nother whole pain in the butt. Better to get the one not drilled or tapped for the nipple and do that job in the exact correct location on the drum when you remove it to file the angle groove in the threaded end of the drum. If you don't have a drill press, taps, etc. available then you would need to get the drum drilling jig from Track. It works great but it's another expense.

All in all, unless you have all the stuff you need to do the job and relish the challenge and problems solving of the project, then don't do it! :haha: . Spend a few more bucks and buy another gun in flint!

 

[nkbj]

Thanks guys.
That the threads wouldn't match a hole liner matches what I was suspecting, because there's no reason to think that it would not be a metric thread. And there I'd be buying a metric tap & die set as well.

 

[longcruise]

And there I'd be buying a metric tap & die set as well.

And probably a replacement flint lock. It all adds up! :shocked2:

 

[Toomuch_36]

The drum, not the breech.
In answer to the previous quaestion,the percusssion and flint barrels appear to be identical with the exception of what's screwed in the hole. I want to find out if they are. Haven't figured out a better way to find out than to look.

You are partly correct.
The truth is the flint and percussion barrels both start out identical, the difference comes whem they are made flint. Oncethe drum has been seated it is then milled off flust to the barrel flat and the resulting hole is then drilled & tapped for the touch hole liner.
In short if this venture is just for exploration DON'T DO IT, you are just heading for a huge repair bill.

Toomuch
.......
Shoot Flint

 

[TraprMike]

thanks for this thread, i was wondering about the drum today. search feature helped again

 

[necchi]

search feature helped again

Atta Boy, :thumbsup:
A little research sure pays off.
Here's a neat little marketing photo from CVA that explains alot;

 

[50cal.cliff]

OK here goes I have been there and done that! DON'T DO IT unless for some reason you have to!

I my case I dry balled with a .495 ball.In my .50cal. Why is that unique you ask because I normally use a .490 ball.
While working up a load I decided to shoot a .495 ball with the same patch I had been using with the .490. The first one went down the barrel with good lube and a hand over hand technique. Not to say it went down easy but it went down. Now here is the part that I think got me into trouble.
I have a habit of when I bottom with my ball I usually will bump the ball with the rod., three times lightly. Not that I am OCD but just a habit, that way I am sure in my mind that the ball is fully seated on the powder.
Well since the first load went off with out a hitch I decided to try the load again.Only this time as I tapped the ball lightly I turned to see the powder still sitting in the measure. I think it swelled the ball enough to make it really tight! At that time I was new in the BP game and did not realize the importance of having a rod marked for bottoming on a load mark!
After I dry balled I tried to use a ball puller to pull the ball in the field it was to no avail, because I stripped the center out of the ball (didn't know this for sure till later)and still had could not pull the ball.

After that I tried blowing it out, and pumping it out with grease but due the center being ripped out of the ball I was unable to move the ball.

Not knowing what I was getting into I pulled the drum so I could remove the breech plug. I actually drove that dryball out of the barrel with a hammer and a long oak dowel. That is the last .495 ball I tried.

I once posted a thread about this but I can't remember the name of it anymore and don't know for sure if you could even pull it up.

I used a pair of vice grips to pull the drum and of course it was toast.

You can buy a CVA replacement but when it is pre- drilled for the nipple it probably won't line up. To remedy this I use a copper washer under it. Sort of a crush washer.

That served me for quite a while. Then I went to the range and I started having trouble, with misfires. The first time it happened I thought it was caps of perhaps I hadn't cleaned the gun properly. Took it home and made sure I cleaned the rifle well, and bought a brand new tin of caps!

The next trip to the range I started having trouble with misfires again. This time I caught it the drum had rotated just enough to allow for misalignment between the hammer and the nipple.

OK it was time to do something about this. I ordered the CVA replacement that has no hole drilled for the nipple. After repeated threading in and backing out to touch the back of the drum with a file to make sure I got a proper seating I then took the kit I had ordered from TOW to drill and tap the new drum to the proper place for a new nipple. The measuring for getting that right is tedious and I suppose a little luck don't hurt at all either.

I have some pics if I haven't gotten rid of all of them. Right now I can't get my Photobucket account to open for some reason but, I will try again later and if I still have the pictures I will post them. I also have pics of a wrench I made to remove any CVA or Traditions drum with out hurting it!

In short don't remove the drum unless absolutely necessary and if you do be prepared. Also if you pull the breech plug make sure to index it before removal!