Prone long rifle

[RAEDWALD]

The bent stock and crescent buttplate of these rifles are well suited to offhand shooting but how adaptable are they to being fired prone? MLAIC competitions, in different classes, involve prone in some and offhand in others. I was thinking of building one gun for all classes and the .32 Crockett looks to be a starting base.
I do know that there are plenty of other choices but the question is about how well rifles of this configuration can be used prone.

 

[crockett]

Check out the stocks on chunk guns, they were heavy and resting over a log while the shooter is in a prone position. The NMLRA has special rules on chunk gun competition.

 

[Stumpkiller]

With a .32 it hardly matters. Recoil is negligible.

Lancaster style (for shape and less drop) or the earlier mid-18th century styles of wider and flatter buttplates would help.

I can't remember the last time I fired from prone position, but I'm pretty sure it was in 1982 or 1983 (back when I used to woodchuck hunt with a m/l at a co-worker's family farm).

 

[Artificer]

The bent stock and crescent buttplate of these rifles are well suited to offhand shooting but how adaptable are they to being fired prone? MLAIC competitions, in different classes, involve prone in some and offhand in others. I was thinking of building one gun for all classes and the .32 Crockett looks to be a starting base.
I do know that there are plenty of other choices but the question is about how well rifles of this configuration can be used prone.

First of all, since MLAIC competitions are shot at 25, 50 and 100 meters - IMO you will NOT be happy with a .32 cal. as an "all around" gun. The .32 just doesn't buck the wind well enough at 50 and especially not at 100 meters. Most shooters compete with a .44, .45 or even up to .50 caliber at 100 meters for a Round Ball Rifle and these are also better choices for 50 meters.

In the old days, guns with a lot of drop in the stock could be shot in the reverse/back/supine prone: but not according to current MLAIC rules:

"aa) Prone:
Shooters must lie on the bare surface of the firing point or on the shooting mat, body extended on the firing point with the head toward the target with both elbows resting on it. The rifle must be supported by both hands and one shoulder only. While aiming, the cheek may be placed against the rifle stock. The rifle may be supported by the sling but the fore-end behind the forward hand or any part of the rifle must not rest on the sling or its attachments. The rifle must not touch, or rest against, any other point or object. Both forearms and sleeves of the shooting jacket forward of the elbow must be visibly raised from the surface of the firing point. The shooter's sling forearm must form an angle not less than 30 degrees from the horizontal, measured from the axis of the forearm"

So I definitely agree with the advice to get a relatively straight stocked rifle with a fairly flat butt plate, as others have mentioned. The caliber choice I would suggest would be .45 caliber or above.

Gus

 

[Artificer]

One production rifle that has been used successfully in MLAIC competition and would qualify fairly well an "all around rifle" is the Pedersoli Mortimer, though it is .54 cal. A lighter and accurate target load is not difficult to shoot in these rifles, so you would not have to worry about recoil.

Gus

 

[don hepler]

When I think of guns for shooting from a prone position, I think of the fish-belly plains rifles. I could imagine a person laying down in the open plains, with the butt of the stock on the ground.

I have a Hawken style rifle, that has a slight fish-belly stock.

 

[RAEDWALD]

OK then. It seems that no one has any experience of trying such a configuration prone unsupported.

 

[Stumpkiller]

All I can tell you is it's a pain to try and reload from prone with a 44" barrel, so I either shoot standing/offhand or sitting with my elbows on my knees.

Many times in season I couldn't see over the snow if I tried shooting prone. This year has been an exception. It's just not a viable hunting position in my local cold, wet terrain so I don't practice it. If I am on the ground it is because I slipped on the ice or mud. For me, shooting is hunting practice.

 

[Gene L]

The prone position is definitely not a hunting position in nearly all situations. It's good on a manicured range, or shooting over a chunk, but that's about it. I'm not sure why the military teaches/taught it, unless it's a confidence builder.

I'm not good enough a shot to compete, so it's out for me.

Is a flat (shotgun butt) more comfortable? No doubt with a heavy recoil rifle, but a .32 doesn't count for recoil. Like a .22 RF rifle.

My .36 H&A has a flat butt plate, plastic at that, and it adds to the ugliness of the rifle.

If I were going to build or buy a ML, it would have a crescent butt plate. Because any rifle I own would spend most of the time above my fireplace looking good, maybe .01% on the range.

 

[coloradoclyde]

The prone position is definitely not a hunting position in nearly all situations

Not sure what that means exactly....

But, I find prone shooting with a Kentucky styled rifle and a curved but plate to be a very comfortable and stable platform....

I recommend people actually get out there and shoot some......before forming opinions...

 

[Stumpkiller]

I went with an early style Lehigh. It has a lot of drop (see my signature footer), but the butt-plate is wide and lacks the deep crescent of the "Golden Age" rifles of that school. It's very comfortable to shoot offhand with moderate .54 loads.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Not asked, but might be pertinent to others contemplating shooting prone.
I have never been able to shoot prone. Even when I was much younger and my waist was about six inches smaller.
I have tried it modern and ml. I just can't breath from that position or crank my neck up to properly see the sights.
'Tis not a sport for everyone. Try it with whatever other rifles you may have before making an investment in a dedicated prone position rifle.
Another consideration. If ye are not an athletic youngster, that getting up and down to reload an ml rifle is very tiring. I used to shoot X-stick buffalo matches at Friendship. Getting up and back down for those matches was an endeavor for a much younger and fit person than I am today.

 

[coloradoclyde]

that getting up and down to reload an ml rifle is very tiring.

Indeed!....I usually just roll over and sip on some lemonade, whilst my porter reloadeds my rifle for me..... :grin:

 

[Gene L]

What it means that in most situations, grass, trees, sticks, and limbs defeat almost any but range situations, where the grass is cut and the range is set up for prone shooting. I have never experienced a prone-shooting situation outside a range. But...

If you CAN do it, certainly do it. Without a sling, it's still better than off-hand. If you can shoot off a bench, do it. If there's no bench or if the ground in front of the muzzle is not mowed like a golf green, you're probably not going to be able to shoot on your own terms.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Yes, I agree...The terrain can dictate your shooting style when hunting....But it's a big country and most of it is very different than the Georgia countryside.... :grin:

 

[hoochiepapa]

I have taken elk from a prone position shooting down into the canyon from the old railroad grade with my .54.
But then you have to haul it up and out :shocked2: :barf: .

 

[coloradoclyde]

Shot a deer like that one year....took 3 guys all day to get it out....next year did the same thing and figured it would be easier to take it out the bottom........it still took all day.....now I choose my shots better....

 

[Artificer]

OK then. It seems that no one has any experience of trying such a configuration prone unsupported.

I may not have been clear in an earlier post. The gun you asked about has so much drop that it is VERY difficult to get into a good, solid prone position with it. That's why I and others suggested a straighter stock with a buttplate that is flat or not curved as much.

At the 1996 World Championships held at the range in Wedgnock, UK; the two Ladies who took the Gold and Silver medals for the Valkyrie, Women's 100 meter prone shot very different guns. The American Lady who took the Silver medal shot an original percussion under hammer .44 cal. rifle that did not have much drop in the stock. The Lady who took the Gold was the wife of the Swiss Team Captain and she shot an original Percussion Jaeger Rifle with a barrel length of about 32". It was probably originally made as a Lady's or Boy's rifle and also did not have a lot of drop in the stock. I don't remember the caliber of that rifle, though it probably was no bigger than .50 cal. I spent over four hours undoing the damage some idiot (who deceptively had called himself a gunsmith) had done to the Tumbler and Sear. There was no equipment to weld metal back on them and I had to recut both with files and stones. I remember that vividly as the American Lady who took the Silver was a long time friend of mine and she was NOT happy that the rifle I had fixed, wound up beating her in that match. :shocked2: :redface:


Gus

 

[Brokennock]

Gene, you say in your post that your rifle is only shot 1% of the time, the rest of the time it's a wall hanger. Maybe you should not have used the word "definitely" to describe your opinion.

I've taken, 2 turkey (one properly sling supported and one with the support hand between my field bag and the front stock), a few predators, and a couple woodchucks from prone. I generally prefer a sitting position if there's time or kneeling if the shot is much past 20 yards and time or terrain won't allow sitting.

Raedwald, I wouldn't think the crescent buttplate would be great for prone shooting, but haven't tried it. See if you can borrow a gun or guns and at least get in the position, if not shoot them, and see how they feel.

 

[Artificer]

I have not used the prone position when hunting much, but I have used it every chance I could get. In my case, it was used it in Iowa, California and here in Virginia a few times. Prone position is THE most stable shooting position you can use, when done correctly, and that is why I used it whenever I could. When I could not use prone, I used the sitting position or any kind of supported standing position I could find. Of course, much of the time when hunting one may not be able to find something to help steady/support the rifle/gun in the standing position.

BTW, the military teaches the same thing about the prone position, though besides being the most stable position, it also exposes the least amount of one's body for an enemy to shoot at. It also means when done properly, one can hit an enemy soldier at ranges they are not capable of returning accurate fire.

Gus