Premade shot cups/cartridges, how to.

[Brokennock]

"If someone can figure out how to make these hold together just a little longer after leaving the muzzle, and drop away, without slugging, I'd love to hear how. "

Try using a dilute paste of starch and water. Apply it evenly to the paper before you roll it. Let the tube dry and it should hold together. Flour was a common buffer before the modern plastic shot buffer, so it should be safe for your barrel.

Interesting idea. Might have to try it. I only get the slugging when I seal the side seam, and then not always. I figured the shot, having more mass than the paper, and least drag, would just outpace the paper cup and leave it behind. No such luck. I have had some success with the lubed cartridge similar to Blackhand's.
I'm really hoping a heavily lubed cushion wad on top of the existing cartridge, ala the SkyChief Special, gets me where I'm looking to be. Seems it would be the easiest next step to the quest.

 

[cullen1780]

Doesn't look like I can buy #5 shot in bulk locally.
Anybody got an online source for lead or bismuth?

The Sicilian

https://www.rotometals.com/
These guys are pretty good. I ordered the #5 copper clad shot recently.

 

[Brokennock]

https://www.rotometals.com/
These guys are pretty good. I ordered the #5 copper clad shot recently.

I have a gunshop near me that sells partial boxes of shotshells that people bring in, old estate stuff, or stuff that comes in with used guns, real cheap, find similar "sale items" and cut them open for the shot. I've done this with oddball "HeviShot" ammo I've found on sale to try loading that shot in my Smoothbore.

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

https://www.rotometals.com/
These guys are pretty good. I ordered the #5 copper clad shot recently.

Cullen,
Thanks for the link!
Quite a selection !

 

[Eterry]

I have a gunshop near me that sells partial boxes of shotshells that people bring in, old estate stuff, or stuff that comes in with used guns, real cheap, find similar "sale items" and cut them open for the shot. I've done this with oddball "HeviShot" ammo I've found on sale to try loading that shot in my Smoothbore.

I still have some bags of shot from CF reloadin;, mostly 7 1/2, but one bag of 5's. I miss working at the local Police Department...people brought in old ammo to be destroyed all the time. I have a gym bag stuffed with reloaded 12 and 20 ga shells that are badly water damaged...of course no one else at the pd wanted them. I saw several boxes marked #4 and #5 and I snatched up the bag. I haven't cut into them other to confirm it is 4s and 5s.

 

[Redstick Lee]

have some cartouches made up in #4, #7, & 00......going to try them with diff. thickness cards and lubed sisal fibers on my next range trip (next dry day we have in monsoon stricken N.E.Alabama) to try to solve the doughnutting problem i'm having with #4 & 00 in my .62/20 Trade Gun.

it's surprisingly accurate w/.595 balls & cut patch...and #7 / cotton balls.......but the 2 in between have been sucking.

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

have some cartouches made up in #4, #7, & 00......going to try them with diff. thickness cards and lubed sisal fibers on my next range trip (next dry day we have in monsoon stricken N.E.Alabama) to try to solve the doughnutting problem i'm having with #4 & 00 in my .62/20 Trade Gun.

it's surprisingly accurate w/.595 balls & cut patch...and #7 / cotton balls.......but the 2 in between have been sucking.

Redstick,
What kind of .62 are you shooting?

 

[Brokennock]

have some cartouches made up in #4, #7, & 00......going to try them with diff. thickness cards and lubed sisal fibers on my next range trip (next dry day we have in monsoon stricken N.E.Alabama) to try to solve the doughnutting problem i'm having with #4 & 00 in my .62/20 Trade Gun.

it's surprisingly accurate w/.595 balls & cut patch...and #7 / cotton balls.......but the 2 in between have been sucking.

The only cards I'm using are the thin ones sold as "overshot" cards. Check out the threads on the SkyChief Special loading procedure.

 

[Redstick Lee]

SH.......Chief Tecumseh model NW Trade Gun....6" shorter than most

 

[Sidney Smith]

When I hunt with my 20 gauge smoothbore I use home made "speed loaders" instead of trying to fumble with shot bags, fiber wads and whatnot. Since I'm a cheapskate I wanted to use something that wouldn't cost me much if anything when making the speed loaders. I wanted to be able to use the container as the wadding as well. I came up with using pages from old phone books, rolled similarly to the ones in the OP's photos. I merely start at one corner, roll up the paper on a dowel (I think its half inch or5/8). I use a kids glue stick to seal the ends. I then pinch off the middle of the tube, fold it over and glue the middle shut. This then makes a two chamber affair that I then put powder in one end, and shot in the other. I simply fold over the ends and glue them shut then fold the thing in half and glue it together. When afield I just tear open the end with the powder, dump it down the pipe, tear off the paper that held the powder crumple it up and shove it down the bore over the powder. It tamps flat easily since its thin paper. A couple crumples over the powder. then tear and pour shot. Then one piece crumpled over the shot and I'm good to go. These loads do not donut on the patterning board and work well. Best of all they cost nearly nothing to make.

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

SH.......Chief Tecumseh model NW Trade Gun....6" shorter than most

Even your 00 buck is doughnuting ?
Nice piece BTW, Military Heritage?

 

[MSW]

Great tutorial!
Thanks for the post

 

[Redstick Lee]

Even your 00 buck is doughnuting ?
Nice piece BTW, Military Heritage?

somewhat doughnutting, erratic may be a better description....and yes, MH brand from India

 

[Black Hand]

somewhat doughnutting, erratic may be a better description....and yes, MH brand from India

Are you using a wad? If yes, dump the wad and replace with 3-4 thin cards. The doughnut happens when your wad blows the pattern, at least that is what others have posted.

 

[Redstick Lee]

Are you using a wad? If yes, dump the wad and replace with 3-4 thin cards. The doughnut happens when your wad blows the pattern, at least that is what others have posted.

thank you....i'll try that too

 

[Grenadier1758]

Are you using a wad? If yes, dump the wad and replace with 3-4 thin cards. The doughnut happens when your wad blows the pattern, at least that is what others have posted.

You could also try a variant of the Skychief load with a lubricated wad over the shot. Some of us have seen an improvement in the pattern.

 

[Redstick Lee]

thanks y'all.......i'm going to try all these as soon as monsoon season in N.E.Alabama breaks ( estimated 4 more days) .

making more shot cups tonight......

 

[Redstick Lee]

just a quick hit here before cleaning and making LOTS more cups.......
the #4 cups with a cotton ball over the powder and a wad of oiled sisal fiber over the cup WORKED ABSOLUTE WONDERS for the doughnutting issue !!

and

#00 with a cotton ball O/P and wad of oiled sisal over 7-8 pellets solved the issue of erratic buckshot patterns.

thanks guys.......now to churn out some cartouches after cleaning the gun !!

 

[Carbon 6]

Pictures, we need pictures.

 

[Sicilian Hunter]

just a quick hit here before cleaning and making LOTS more cups.......
the #4 cups with a cotton ball over the powder and a wad of oiled sisal fiber over the cup WORKED ABSOLUTE WONDERS for the doughnutting issue !!

and

#00 with a cotton ball O/P and wad of oiled sisal over 7-8 pellets solved the issue of erratic buckshot patterns.

thanks guys.......now to churn out some cartouches after cleaning the gun !!

Redstick,
Great!!
BTW, what did you use on the sisal? Olive oil?
Good to hear the 00 buck tightened up also, I was wondering if the dougnutting had something to do with the way the balls stacked in the bore and/or cartridge.
If you have any, I agree with Carbon 6, send pics!