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Powder Weight vs volume? New to purcussion.

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Bo0tz

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That would be much safer - it takes a bit of re-orientation to go from weighing powder to measuring powder, but when you do, it will not make any difference what powder you use, real black or any synthetic will measure exactly the same and have the same amount of power in the shot. With weighing black powder you will be all over the chart when you change products.
I agree. I don't plan on changing this setup now that I have it dialed in maybe backing down a bit after this season. Will pull out the chronograph soon. Never was into black powder much but I think it will be pretty exciting to go old-school for some deer hunting. Once my mold comes in I will start making my own RB but thats another adventure for later.
 

mooman76

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Easy to make a powder measure, especially that you already have it dialed in. Alloy of hunters premeasure so it's ready to go in the field.
 

mechteacher

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BP is measured by weight. Powder measures will give you very accurate amounts of BP. Like several people have already shown that subtitude powders have different weights for the same volume of powder. 75 grain by volume of Pyrodex if the equivalent charge as 75 grains by volume or weight of BP. I do place my powder charge in small tubes for range days. I like BP and my son who just started a 45-70 TC tried BP in a few rounds and ordered Zeveral pounds of BP. That is now a BP gun!!
 

Bo0tz

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Easy to make a powder measure, especially that you already have it dialed in. Alloy of hunters premeasure so it's ready to go in the field.
Makes sense i have been weighing 8 charges out and keeping em in my bag. Glad to know I didn't push it to high and over the max load but I'm still learning and pretty happy with my results so far. I will tweak it and get a powder measure..sounds safer.
 

Griz44Mag

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I agree. I don't plan on changing this setup now that I have it dialed in maybe backing down a bit after this season. Will pull out the chronograph soon. Never was into black powder much but I think it will be pretty exciting to go old-school for some deer hunting. Once my mold comes in I will start making my own RB but thats another adventure for later.
Good for you!
A few years ago I gave up hunting out of a box, and gave up using anything with a brass cartridge. I went from hunting with a gun that could pick off a fly's right eye at 500 yards to a gun that at best should only be used to 100 yards and only under perfect alignment.
My enjoyment of hunting went from ho-hum to real excitement again. I was back afoot and stalking where the hunted had as much of a chance (or better) of escaping than I had of putting meat in the freezer for the coming year.
Enjoy your new passion! It will give you pleasure and real satisfaction.
 

SDSmlf

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Good for you!
A few years ago I gave up hunting out of a box, and gave up using anything with a brass cartridge. I went from hunting with a gun that could pick off a fly's right eye at 500 yards to a gun that at best should only be used to 100 yards and only under perfect alignment.
My enjoyment of hunting went from ho-hum to real excitement again. I was back afoot and stalking where the hunted had as much of a chance (or better) of escaping than I had of putting meat in the freezer for the coming year.
Enjoy your new passion! It will give you pleasure and real satisfaction.
Have hunted in NY exclusively the past 25 plus years (have hunting property there) with a muzzleloader, though I have never hunted New York’s muzzleloading season. In the Carolinas, more than 75% of my gun hunting is with a muzzleloader, but I choose to archery hunt my property around the house no matter the season just to remain stealthy, though guns are perfectly legal. Have found any traditional muzzleloader, particularly a flintlock, will typically, at least in my experience, draw attention when successful. Guess I love the perceived challenge.
 

Bo0tz

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Good for you!
A few years ago I gave up hunting out of a box, and gave up using anything with a brass cartridge. I went from hunting with a gun that could pick off a fly's right eye at 500 yards to a gun that at best should only be used to 100 yards and only under perfect alignment.
My enjoyment of hunting went from ho-hum to real excitement again. I was back afoot and stalking where the hunted had as much of a chance (or better) of escaping than I had of putting meat in the freezer for the coming year.
Enjoy your new passion! It will give you pleasure and real satisfaction.
I already enjoy it. Much more to dive into. I am tempted to use if for rifle but I have two guns with no kills for that. I lost alot of things that give me adrenaline like they used to..and I'm only 26 so I'm hoping this does what bow hunting does for me again. I will post any results of this season. Its funny to hear my friend question why I would give up a modern muzzleloader but I'm set on sticking with it
 

Bo0tz

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That's why I want in it I posted on another reply. Im looking for the adrenaline. Its harder to find after some things I have been apart of
Have hunted in NY exclusively the past 25 plus years (have hunting property there) with a muzzleloader, though I have never hunted New York’s muzzleloading season. In the Carolinas, more than 75% of my gun hunting is with a muzzleloader, but I choose to archery hunt my property around the house no matter the season just to remain stealthy, though guns are perfectly legal. Have found any traditional muzzleloader, particularly a flintlock, will typically, at least in my experience, draw attention when successful. Guess I love the perceived challenge.
 

arcticap

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Now to my question. I have heard back and forth between volume measuring powder and weight measuring using a scale. Does this really matter in any way other than possibly over charging?
I am currently shooting 75 grains wieghed out on scale of pyrodex. I put it into cheap BP plastic tubes to keep measured charges with me and they show between 95-100 grains of volume. I don't trust the accuracy of the tube measurements but would this be any risk of being over charged?
Curtrich posted 2 conversion charts that are very handy and may save folks from needing to do the calculations.

The latest conversion sheet was revised in 2012 and lists the volume to weight equivalents of Pyrodex P but not Pyrodex RS. --->>> BP Conversion Sheet (revised December 2012)

His original conversion sheet from 2005 includes Pyrodex RS but not Pyrodex P. --->>> Black Powder Conversions

The main difference between the 2 charts was that in 2005 he used an adjustable volume measure and in 2012 he used a scoop measure and averaged the 5 samples.

The 2012 chart shows that Pyrodex P weighed about 24% less than Goex 3F.
The 2005 chart shows that Pyrodex RS weighed about 31.6% less than Goex 2F.

I'm surprised that no one has posted these conversion charts up to this point in the thread.
Perhaps many folks don't know that they exist.
 
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griffiga

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100 grains by volume of 2F blackpowder or Pyrodex RS is towards the high end of many manufacturer’s max load for a 50 caliber round ball in a 15/16” barrel. TC for example I know shows 110 grains. Suggest you follow what Traditions shows in their manual. Personally, if accurate, I would feel safe using the load, but that is me I’m my gun.
My hunting load with my .50 TC ( when I had it) was 90 grains FFG behind .490 round ball. Velocity was 1800 + FPS. Out to 100 yards, it did quite well on deer. Any powder charge beyond that was pretty much diminishing returns.
 

Griz44Mag

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Curtrich posted 2 conversion charts that are very handy and may save folks from needing to do the calculations.

The latest conversion sheet was revised in 2012 and lists the volume to weight equivalents of Pyrodex P but not Pyrodex RS. --->>> BP Conversion Sheet (revised December 2012)

His original conversion sheet from 2005 includes Pyrodex RS but not Pyrodex P. --->>> Black Powder Conversions

The main difference between the 2 charts was that in 2005 he used an adjustable volume measure and in 2012 he used a scoop measure and averaged the 5 samples.

The 2012 chart shows that Pyrodex P weighed about 24% less than Goex 3F.
The 2005 chart shows that Pyrodex RS weighed about 31.6% less than Goex 2F.

I'm surprised that no one has posted these conversion charts up to this point in the thread.
Perhaps many folks don't know that they exist.
I don't think it is a lack of seeing or knowing these facts, they have been discussed in many-many threads all over this forum.
It's likely more of an issue where if you measure your powder by volume, the weight is irrelevant. The best course is to use the powder as it was designed to be used and there will be no issues.
 

arcticap

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I don't think it is a lack of seeing or knowing these facts, they have been discussed in many-many threads all over this forum.
It's likely more of an issue where if you measure your powder by volume, the weight is irrelevant. The best course is to use the powder as it was designed to be used and there will be no issues.
Evidently, as the OP explained he wanted to be more precise by using a scale.
Like Curtrich stated on his 2012 page about converting to weights, "... It ain't brain surgery."
He devised the charts as a public service for a reason.
It helps to promote safety to post the info. instead of telling the OP that it shouldn't be done because Pyrodex wasn't intended to be weighed.
Its weight is relevant if a person doesn't have a powder measure but can go down to the local convenience store and buy a compact electronic scale nearly 24 hours a day that can fit in their pocket.
Compact electronic scales are being sold nearly everywhere now days and are much easier to obtain than a powder measure.
What if someone loses their powder measure in the woods or simply can't find it, but they have a perfectly good scale at home?
If the OP knew about the conversion charts then he wouldn't have asked about weighing Pyrodex by starting the thread. ;)
 
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hanshi

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It really doesn't matter, to a point, how much your powder charge weighs. Work up your load with an adjustable powder measure using the amounts stamped on the measure. Start with a moderate amount and gradually increase in 5 grain increments until you get a good, accurate load. Make a fixed measure to hold the amount settled on in the adjustable measure. You can then weight the amount on a scale to see what the weight is. You'll discover it will be close to very close. You'll have your load and never need to weigh it. Throughout history powder was measured by "volume", scales were hard to come by.
 

Griz44Mag

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Evidently, as the OP explained he wanted to be more precise by using a scale.
Like Curtrich stated on his 2012 page about converting to weights, "... It ain't brain surgery."
He devised the charts as a public service for a reason.
It helps to promote safety to post the info. instead of telling the OP that it shouldn't be done because Pyrodex wasn't intended to be weighed.
Its weight is relevant if a person doesn't have a powder measure but can go down to the local convenience store and buy a compact electronic scale nearly 24 hours a day that can fit in their pocket.
Compact electronic scales are being sold nearly everywhere now days and are much easier to obtain than a powder measure.
What if someone loses their powder measure in the woods or simply can't find it, but they have a perfectly good scale at home?
If the OP knew about the conversion charts then he wouldn't have asked about weighing Pyrodex by starting the thread. ;)
Anyone that can't find an adjustable powder measure in a store or online in less than 5 minutes is either blind and deaf or is asleep.
Take a look at any gun manufacturers recommended powder charges and tell me if you can find a single one of them that publishes that data in weight. You of all people - should know better.....
 

Okie Hog

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Zonie

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Speaking of that powder converting chart, here is a link to it on the web.


When I called it up on my computer, I was able to save it into my Black Powder File by poking my right mouse button and then selecting Save As.
The Save As was already set up to put stuff into my Black Powder File so I just poked the Save button and, POOF. It's now saved for future reference.
 

Harry C

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I have been weighing powder for a while due to the fact I've been reloading since 1970 and love precision shooting and loading. Which ever granulated powder you might choose, always start by measuring volume then weight it and log it in. I've had this argued over and over that it will not work. Just today I was weighing out 20 loads for the range and every time I use this method, start by volume measurement then pour it in the weigh scales. By weight I'm usually off .2 to .3 of a grains from the volume measure proving the very reason I weigh each shot prior to range day or hunting. This method works for me and many that have followed. Never confuse FFg and FFFg being the same weight because of density differences. Shoot safe!
 

arcticap

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Anyone that can't find an adjustable powder measure in a store or online in less than 5 minutes is either blind and deaf or is asleep.
Take a look at any gun manufacturers recommended powder charges and tell me if you can find a single one of them that publishes that data in weight. You of all people - should know better.....
I would imagine that many of the long range muzzle loader competitors who participate in the MLAIC world matches also weigh their powder charges.
Perhaps some of the NMLRA competition shooters do too.
But I wouldn't want to snitch on anyone and give away any of their secrets to winning. :)



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Griz44Mag

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I would imagine that many of the long range muzzle loader competitors who participate in the MLAIC world matches also weigh their powder charges.
Perhaps some of the NMLRA competition shooters do too.
But I wouldn't want to snitch on anyone and give away any of their secrets to winning. :)



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LOL - there are always exceptions to everything. For the average shooter who is inclined to use synthetic powders weighing charges is going to get them in trouble as no two synthetics will weigh out the same when compared to volume measure.
I do weigh my PRS charges (those "others" using that "other" kind of propellant) down to .05gr. That's down to 1 or 2 granules for a cylindrical powder. When shooting out beyond 1K yards it's going to make a difference. But that's a different world, and we are talking black powder and open sights pushing unbalanced projectiles are much shorter distances.
 

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