Powder under the nipple .....

[Stantheman86]

It's the same with all hunting, many people I know are "avid hunters" but never , or rarely, shoot on a range so they have little knowledge besides "put the crosshair on the game and fire".

Some of the stories I hear are frightening.

In PA up until recently Muzzleloading Season was flintlock with iron sights only and I ask some guys about changing flints or how many shots until a flint goes bad and they just look at you like "wut". In other words they've had a CVA Hawken since 1982 with the same flint in the jaws because the thing has 20 shots through it.

 

[Sinner]

So, think I know what the underlying problem is here. Guys who only large game hunt once or twice a year just aren't as intimately familiar with the quirks and nuances of their rifle. Die hard small game hunters and people who shoot weekly have a clear advantage and confidence in their guns.
Just my opinion/observation, Nobody flip out.

I have the utmost confidence in my loading. And it rewards me well.

I agree with this. I have a group of people I can get together with weekly. It really help to let you know if everything is reliable and consistent.

 

[Sparkitoff]

In one instance I was carrying a charged rifle while a client was using theirs. After they missed we still had another chance. I do not recall if I "popped a cap" or not before loading but we were already within 100-yards of game so needed silence. However, I gave him the rifle and he got a "pop". This caused the animal to run and another hour to get on it again. With my rifle capped it did go off that time. The same year with a smoothbore I did "pop a cap", load and give it to a client to shoot at a target. First trigger pull was "pop". Next one went off. Loaded the same barrel and went on the hunt. He has the animal in his sights and "pop". I quickly re-capped and re-rammed while the animal stood looking for the source of noise. It went boom on the next trigger pull. This prompted my to take all the rifles (4) and smoothbore (1) to the range and experiment as mentioned in original post and as mentioned got one "pop" in 50-shots (a little less). I checked my flask and I am using FFFFg under the nipples. I prime at camp or the vehicle so I am not worried about losing a nipple. I shoot around 1000 shots a year at the range. I am an English trained gunmaker and spent 25-years as a PH on two continents and served in the military. I am very familiar with my rifles and do not consider myself a casual or care-free shooter. My intent is to fight Murphy's law with every trick in the book to limit it's wrath to a fraction of a percent. I appreciate the tips and anecdotes from you all!

 

[45man]

I have had a failure now and then and FFFFG in the nipple will work. A nipple should never be put in without anti seize anyway. Just put 4F in the nipple.
I always fire at least 3 caps before loading and my problem is moisture if the gun sits. Even though I keep the gun cold, it happens. A few degrees will sweat. I take my pick and push 4F into the touch hole on a flint when I charge the pan.

 

[Carbon 6]

I shoot around 1000 shots a year at the range. I am an English trained gunmaker and spent 25-years as a PH on two continents and served in the military. I am very familiar with my rifles and do not consider myself a casual or care-free shooter. My intent is to fight Murphy's law with every trick in the book to limit it's wrath to a fraction of a percent. I appreciate the tips and anecdotes from you all!

Do you clean your gun before you load it to remove the oil ?
Do you verify positive air flow though the nipple and bolster before loading?
Have you ever replaced the nipple?

Experience is often part of the problem if you have a problem you can't correct.

 

[Stony Broke]

I had to do that last sunday myself, as I was shooting a match and gabbing with a guy next to me while loading and managed to dry ball one. I dribbled a little 3f behind the ball, and managed to get it to fire about 20 feet in front of me. First time I have had that problem for many years, but we all manage to do it now and then. I think putting a pinch under the nipple would be a good idea as I had one fail to fire once. It certainly wouldn't hurt anything and is just good insurance as far as I am concerned.

 

[Rifleman1776]

In one instance I was carrying a charged rifle while a client was using theirs. After they missed we still had another chance. I do not recall if I "popped a cap" or not before loading but we were already within 100-yards of game so needed silence. However, I gave him the rifle and he got a "pop". This caused the animal to run and another hour to get on it again. With my rifle capped it did go off that time. The same year with a smoothbore I did "pop a cap", load and give it to a client to shoot at a target. First trigger pull was "pop". Next one went off. Loaded the same barrel and went on the hunt. He has the animal in his sights and "pop". I quickly re-capped and re-rammed while the animal stood looking for the source of noise. It went boom on the next trigger pull. This prompted my to take all the rifles (4) and smoothbore (1) to the range and experiment as mentioned in original post and as mentioned got one "pop" in 50-shots (a little less). I checked my flask and I am using FFFFg under the nipples. I prime at camp or the vehicle so I am not worried about losing a nipple. I shoot around 1000 shots a year at the range. I am an English trained gunmaker and spent 25-years as a PH on two continents and served in the military. I am very familiar with my rifles and do not consider myself a casual or care-free shooter. My intent is to fight Murphy's law with every trick in the book to limit it's wrath to a fraction of a percent. I appreciate the tips and anecdotes from you all!

Spark, there are so many contradictions in your post my head is swimming. As an experienced shooter/hunter/gunsmith I would expect your chances of failure to fire with a percussion rifle at less than a one in a gazzilion chance. A rifle in good repair, properly loaded and a cap will fire 100% of the time. I am bumfuzzled as to why you would get 'pop' when shooting. This is where being with you on the range when such anomaly's happens can be a big help. Right now, my mental algorithm is telling me you are using lousy nipples. Standard reliables like Hot Shots might fix yer issue. No offense, just my tuppence.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Sounds like an example of some lingering oil residue, didn't take much.

 

[Eterry]

Britt, I don't use the technique when plinking or target shooting informally, but when hunting deer, hog, or other game i have both pulled the nipple and primed it, I've also trickled ffffg into the nipple. Pulling it is much easier to do then trickling the ffffg.

Last week shooting trap with a muzzle-loader i saw almost everyone load a blank charge, step to the side of the firing line, and blast into the air to prevent misfires when they called "Pull". I was told to do so and had no misfires.
I have also fired a blank before hunting, but i don't recall ever having "primed" the nipple and it misfiring.

I have also learned to store my musket muzzle down after cleaning and oiling, and remember to wipe it out with a dry patch before loading...it seems to help.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Sounds like an example of some lingering oil residue, didn't take much.

Well, I came close to insulting an experienced shooter. Might as well continue with the candid remarks. Yes, I thought the problem might be from leaving storage oil in the breech. But to suggest that as a cause with such and experience shooter might be insulting. You and I would never do that.

 

[Rat]

Wow...I have never had a misfire with a cap-lock. It certainly takes more than "wiping the barrel with a dry patch" to achieve 100% reliability.

After meticulously cleaning the rifle, one must meticulously clean it again with dry patches, including the inside of the nipple, the area under the nipple and the flash channel. Use pipe cleaners on the flash channel, and work a pipe cleaner as far as you can into the nipple. Then you do it again with denatured alcohol. All again. Then you dry patch-clean everything again. Let it sit for a day. Then load it, it will not misfire.

Seriously, I have never had a misfire. I will say, all my cap guns have musket nipples, so perhaps that has something to do with it. But if a cap lock "pops", then there was something obstructing the path to the main charge, or the powder up against the flash channel was contaminated. This can be crud from firing a cap before loading....which used to be more of a problem when caps were more corrosive. But usually it's the result of a poor job of pre-cleaning before loading. Water and oil left in the flash channel, in the nipple, or the area under the nipple. Popping a cap in a clean rifle was/used to be a sure way to get a misfire, worse than a poor pre-cleaning before loading. Often it just drives the oil, water, or crud into the flash channel, or breech.

No offense to anyone, but I still cringe when I see anyone popping a cap before loading, when hunting. On the range it don't matter.

I usually leave my rifles loaded during the hunting season, so hunting with a rifle that has been live-fired a couple of times is not an option, but even that is a better option than wiping the bore and breech a few times with a dry patch, popping a cap, loading, and then hitting the dusty trail.

 

[BlackHillsBob]

sparkitoff, your gun is about 80 percent finished. it will give you what you want. if you let me rebuild your percussions to my specs they will also give you what you want every shot after shot. no hassel no worry just shot after shot in the bull at any range.

 

[Carbon 6]

When one observes the old ways and acts as they did back in the day having a gun always at the ready, you learn a lot about making sure your gun fires.
Anyone who is a modern gun aficionado will find what they know to be a disadvantage when shooting muzzleloaders.

If you really want to learn a lot about muzzleloaders, keep your gun always loaded for a year shooting it frequently for the first 6 months and then only a couple times for the remainder. store your gun outside once and a while, and use nothing available after 1850 to clean or maintain your gun.

It will expand your mind.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Well, I came close to insulting an experienced shooter. Might as well continue with the candid remarks. Yes, I thought the problem might be from leaving storage oil in the breech. But to suggest that as a cause with such and experience shooter might be insulting. You and I would never do that.

To be honest I was speaking from experience and my own mistakes.

 

[Bad Karma]

I tried it once years ago, and got hang-fires, or slight delays. ? This was in a Replica Remington Contract Rifle.

Same results here in a couple different T(C rifles. I’m sure I used 2f or 3f.

 

[Richard Konish]

I always oil well when I am done cleaning. Before using again I wipe out the bore and remove the little clean out screw on the drum or bolster and clean with a pipe cleaner. I also snap a cap or two before loading to be sure the flash channel is clear and have never had a failure to fire with either BP or Pyro. Some people say it isn't necessary to remove the clean out screw when cleaning but unless you can run a pipe cleaner through it there is no way you can be sure there is no gunk in there to interfere with the flash from the cap reaching the charge.

 

[Carbon 6]

Some people say it isn't necessary to remove the clean out screw when cleaning but unless you can run a pipe cleaner through it there is no way you can be sure there is no gunk in there to interfere with the flash from the cap reaching the charge.

Well, I guess I've been wrong all these years. I wonder how come my gun fires every time and I don't remove the clean out screw?

Back when I was green as grass I had trouble with misfires, then I started putting powder under the nipple for the first shot and found my gun misfiring a dozen or so later.

These days I have no issues, and I never remove the clean out screw and never put powder under a nipple unless I dry ball.

I can't help but chuckle, at all the troubles people have trying to operate one of the simplest firearms ever invented. This ain't rocket science.

 

[Richard Konish]

It isn't wrong if it works for you. Might not be absolutely necessary but I am a belt and suspenders kind of guy.

 

[45man]

You all miss one thing. Caps have a coating on the compound that can plug the nipple. That was not there long ago.

 

[Carbon 6]

You all miss one thing. Caps have a coating on the compound that can plug the nipple. That was not there long ago.

Certain caps, and certain nipples, it shouldn't affect the first shot though unless you have residual oil seepage from the nipple to sully the paper/foil. Which many do. And that foil/ coating blocks the nipple hole so adding powder under it does nothing. Now a carbon/ oil residue between the nipple chamber and the main charge, that's the real culprit.

I've also run into new nipples that were poorly made. That's why I asked if he ever replaced his nipple, but I never got an answer.

Careful examination of the gun will tell all.
Snap a cap then inspect the nipple, Can you see through the hole? if not you have a problem.
load the gun then remove the nipple, do you see powder, if not then you have a different problem.
Etc. etc.
It doesn't matter how much gun experience a person has. What matters is how much problem solving experience you have. You can't fix a problem you can't identify. You can only ignore or avoid it, and I see a lot of that in this sport. It's almost like people are allergic to fixing problems or have a problem phobia.