Powder horn with a staple

[Onojutta]

Got a nice affordable powder horn from Crazy Crow. Real niece horn for the price, except that I was surprised to open the package and find the leather strap attached to the front side of the horn with a giant metal staple. I'm not a re-enactor, but I intend to use this horn for 18th century style hunting and generally try to be reasonably PC to authenticate the experience. Is there anything PC about using a metal staple on an 18th century powder horn?

 

[Black Hand]

Picture please...

 

[Onojutta]

This isn't the exact one, but very much like this

https://www.crazycrow.com/powder-horns/cumberland-horns-large-powder-horn-11-15in

 

[tenngun]

I have never seen an old horn with a staple on the horn. The riveted strap is a more modern adaptation. All old horns I’ve seen or seen in old paintings seemed to have a groove around it.
If your trying to fit to a period this might not work. However if your wanting to be ‘old timey’ or bush craft it should serve you well. It will keep your powder dry and look nice with your gear.

 

[Artificer]

Staples on the Rear Wood Plug of the Horn? Yes! Staples on the front on the front of the horn? I don’t know of any authentic ones like that.

Now some British Horns had Eyelets where some seem to have been fashioned of wire and others were cast brass, the latter especially on priming horns for cannon either land or naval.

Some of both here:

https://www.scribd.com/document/267409734/Military-Arms-Accoutrements-Powder-Horns-English

Another:

https://www.invaluable.co.uk/auction-lot/artillery-powder-horn-with-metal-cap-charger-and-223-c-58d4ae0867


American Naval Horn of the War of 1812, but the design goes back well into the 18th century

http://www.thayeramericana.com/moreinfo.php?arch=yes&cat_id=6&pid=69&photo_id=548&item_number=0


More Common 18th century American Horns

https://www.scribd.com/document/288282719/Military-Arms-Accoutrements-Powder-Horns-American-1700-1759


https://www.scribd.com/document/288283152/Military-Arms-Accoutrements-Powder-Horns-American-1760-1769


https://www.scribd.com/document/288283500/Military-Arms-Accoutrements-Powder-Horns-American-1770-1785


Gus

 

[Crewdawg445]

Got a nice affordable powder horn from Crazy Crow. Real niece horn for the price, except that I was surprised to open the package and find the leather strap attached to the front side of the horn with a giant metal staple. I'm not a re-enactor, but I intend to use this horn for 18th century style hunting and generally try to be reasonably PC to authenticate the experience. Is there anything PC about using a metal staple on an 18th century powder horn?

Those CC horns IMO leave allot left to be desired. Is it properly sealed? Allot can be done to slim the horn down and give it more period appeal if that is your thing. Any images?

 

[waksupi]

Staples were used on early horns to keep the strap in place. The strap isn't attached to the staple, but put under it to prevent movement. Check the horn makers guild page.

 

[Elnathan]

As waksupi says, you will find these staples on originals, but I wouldn't characterize then as early per se, as they mostly seem to be found on professionally made 19th century horns with applied tips. However, there is one with a plain spout very much like the Crazy Crow example that came out of a non-mountainous area of Tennessee and is pictured in John Rice Irwin's Guns and Gunmaking Tools of Southern Appalachia.

I was told that the staple was there to keep the strap from moving about and that the strap was not directly attached to the staple; however, a quick spin through my books turned up no less than four examples where the strap appears to be directly attached to the staple, so evidently not everyone in the past paid attention to that rule! It is worth noting, though, that two of those examples were from Piedmont NC horns with applied wooden spouts - not a common material - so perhaps that method is linked to a regional practice or material.

 

[Le Loup]

Got a nice affordable powder horn from Crazy Crow. Real niece horn for the price, except that I was surprised to open the package and find the leather strap attached to the front side of the horn with a giant metal staple. I'm not a re-enactor, but I intend to use this horn for 18th century style hunting and generally try to be reasonably PC to authenticate the experience. Is there anything PC about using a metal staple on an 18th century powder horn?

To date I do not recall seeing a powder horn using a staple at the spout end, but that does not mean one does not exist. What can be an issue with bought powder horns is 1) the base plug has not been sealed with beeswax, & 2) the base plug may have been secured with glue. Both of these actions can be very dangerous.
See more here: https://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2014/04/a-powder-horn-safety-test-in-belgium.html

And Here: https://woodsrunnersdiary.blogspot.com/2014/07/more-info-on-making-powder-horns.html

If you are concerned regarding the staple, I recommend that you remove the staple & plug the holes with wooden pegs.

This is one of my powder horns I made many years ago.
Keith.

 

[Crewdawg445]

Beautiful example Keith! I've been following your work for years. Very glad to see you have made it to the forum! The YouTube page you have is very informative and easy to follow.

Best regards from a friend across the pond!

 

[Le Loup]

Beautiful example Keith! I've been following your work for years. Very glad to see you have made it to the forum! The YouTube page you have is very informative and easy to follow.

Best regards from a friend across the pond!

Thank you, very much appreciated.
Regards, Keith.

 

[Onojutta]

Update for posterity. I contacted Crazy Crow to inquire about whether their horns have glued in butt plugs. The woman I spoke with was very helpful, and after checking with Procurement, she confirmed that all of their horns do in fact have the plugs glued in by the manufacturer. I explained to her the safety concern mentioned above, and she indicated they were not aware of this but agreed that it stood to reason. I suggested they review this with their manufacturer, and she thanked me for the suggestion and said they would look into it, and offered to let me return my horn.

 

[Le Loup]

Update for posterity. I contacted Crazy Crow to inquire about whether their horns have glued in butt plugs. The woman I spoke with was very helpful, and after checking with Procurement, she confirmed that all of their horns do in fact have the plugs glued in by the manufacturer. I explained to her the safety concern mentioned above, and she indicated they were not aware of this but agreed that it stood to reason. I suggested they review this with their manufacturer, and she thanked me for the suggestion and said they would look into it, and offered to let me return my horn.

Well done Onojutta.
Regards, Keith.

 

[Pete44ru]

Update for posterity. I contacted Crazy Crow to inquire about whether their horns have glued in butt plugs. The woman I spoke with was very helpful, and after checking with Procurement, she confirmed that all of their horns do in fact have the plugs glued in by the manufacturer. I explained to her the safety concern mentioned above, and she indicated they were not aware of this but agreed that it stood to reason. I suggested they review this with their manufacturer, and she thanked me for the suggestion and said they would look into it, and offered to let me return my horn.

The last horn I bought from Crazy Crow had visible gaps betwixt the base plug & the sides of the horn - I was able to blow into the pouring spout and feel the air escaping from around the base plug.

Also, the brass spout was installed at an awkward angle to the line of the horn - terrible fitting.

 

[Pete44ru]

What happened to the "edit" feature ? ? ?

Anyway, here's the Crazy Crow horn - which I am in the process of "fixing" by reseating/refitting the spout, sealing the base plug & cutting off the integral wood knob so I can replace it with a removable brass filler that will also serve as the rear anchor for the horn strap.

 

[Hornguy]

I have been collecting powder horns for many years and have come across 18th century horns with staples on the butt end and the neck. Staples on the butt end are very common but not so common on the narrow neck part especially if the neck is recessed and has enough space to wrap a strap around it. I have one dated 1774 with a recessed neck and a staple near the pouring spout.

 

[Hornguy]

Here's a better picture showing the length of the horn;

 

[Ames]

What happened to the "edit" feature ? ? ?

Anyway, here's the Crazy Crow horn - which I am in the process of "fixing" by reseating/refitting the spout, sealing the base plug & cutting off the integral wood knob so I can replace it with a removable brass filler that will also serve as the rear anchor for the horn strap.

I'm sure you will do a fantastic save on that horn, but....
I think you have reached the point that you should send it back for a refund and use the money for a unfinished horn. I think you have the skill, why bother fixing someone else's mistakes on a production horn? All the work you stated IS horning. They blew it on that one. Don't fix it. Walk away from it. I think you have the talent to build your own. And your work will be much better than what they handed you.

 

[Black Hand]

I'm sure you will do a fantastic save on that horn, but....
I think you have reached the point that you should send it back for a refund and use the money for a unfinished horn. I think you have the skill, why bother fixing someone else's mistakes on a production horn? All the work you stated IS horning. They blew it on that one. Don't fix it. Walk away from it. I think you have the talent to build your own.

Frankly, I would never have purchased a horn from Crazy Crow. The ones I've seen were lumpy, short and ugly and no amount of work will make them look good (that whole lipstick on a pig thing).

 

[Elnathan]

I have been collecting powder horns for many years and have come across 18th century horns with staples on the butt end and the neck. Staples on the butt end are very common but not so common on the narrow neck part especially if the neck is recessed and has enough space to wrap a strap around it. I have one dated 1774 with a recessed neck and a staple near the pouring spout.

Oh, that is a nice one. The position of the staple is pretty odd, though. Any chance that it is a later addition? It doesn't look like the horn was designed with it in mind.

Also, any clue were that horn might have been made? I've seen that style of end plug on several horns made around that date from Virginia and the Carolinas, but I have no idea if it is regional distinctive or not.