Powder Code "G"

[Archer 756]

:hmm: Just was talking to some club members on Black powder and was amazed as to how few know what the "g"stands for in powder code. Does any one else see that very few know what it stands for.

 

[bpd303]

To my understanding the g means grains, the f designation is the size of screen it will pass through.

 

[necchi]

Glazed.
From Bill Knight, part 5 page 52;

As the powder grains tumble and rub together these deposits are compacted and
fused into a hard glass-like film that encapsulates the grains. The friction between the grains
rounds off sharp edges and smooths the film forming on the grains surfaces. A well polished
powder without a graphite coating on the grains will give the appearance that the grains had
been dipped in molten glass and allowed to cool. This is where the term “glazed” powder
originated. Glazed as in glass.
This “glazing”, or polishing, of the powder grains imparts a great deal of mechanical
strength to the surfaces of the powder grains. Glazed powders are less prone to shedding
surface dust during shipping and handling of the powder.
With black powders produced for use as a propellant charge in small-arms the
glazing is crucial for accuracy in the powder.
The glaze will slow the rate at which the powder charge ignites and burns. The skin,
or glaze, on the grains is composed of potassium nitrate and charcoal minerals. The skin is
not combustible. The skin does not contain sufficient charcoal and sulfur to support powder
combustion. To gain ignition and combustion of the grain of powder a spark or flame must
first melt through some point in the skin.

 

[galamb]

Ok, third "belief" -

There are two basic types of black powder -

Blasting powder designated "A" and sporting powder designated "G"

So FFA would be a blasting grade and FFG would be a sporting grade.

Next....

 

[necchi]

From Bill Knight part6 page 65;

There are two misconceptions regarding the function of graphite coatings on grains
of black powder.
One common myth is that the small letter g behind the grain size designation
indicates that the powder has been graphite coated. The small letter g stands for glazed
powder. Glazing and graphite coating are two entirely different things.
When glazed grains of black powder, lacking a graphite coating, are stored for any
length of time the mass of grains will begin to clump together. The surfaces of the grains are
covered in a thin skin of potassium nitrate and charcoal minerals. These are crystalline
materials and will behave as all crystalline materials do. Surfaces of the same salt in contact
with even slight amounts of pressure will begin to fuse, or bond, together.

That should put an end to all the myth.

 

[Archer 756]

:thumbsup: Just so everyone knows the "G" is when powder has graphite coating. Goex now has traditional powder that does note have any graphite. That mean that when one looks at the "FF" there is no "G" This information is direct from Goex sales. :hatsoff:

 

[necchi]

Can you provide a link to that information, or show where Goex sells a sporting grade powder that does not have a "g" designation?
Or show where Goex sells powder with a "G"?

There is powder for fireworks with "A"
There is blasting powder with "BB"

This info is dated 10yrs at least, but it's still the premiere compilation of powder info. http://www.laflinandrand.com/page3.htm

Beyond brand name and the propellant substitutes, to my knowledge no new powder making technique has been used in nearly 100 years.

 

[galamb]

I have the same designations in an engineering handbook on explosives.

But didn't realize or even bother to inquire if the "g" had any more meaning than it's association with "sporting powder".

The warehouse I work at stores different classes of "explosives" (fireworks, powders and ammunition) so have only ever been concerned with the "classes" as they apply to storage regulations.

 

[excess650]

:thumbsup: Just so everyone knows the "G" is when powder has graphite coating. Goex now has traditional powder that does note have any graphite. That mean that when one looks at the "FF" there is no "G" This information is direct from Goex sales. :hatsoff:

The following is from the Lafflin and Rand site, authored by "The Mad Monk".

Graphite coatings on black powder.
There are two misconceptions regarding the function of graphite coatings on grains
of black powder.
One common myth is that the small letter g behind the grain size designation
indicates that the powder has been graphite coated. The small letter g stands for glazed
powder. Glazing and graphite coating are two entirely different things.

Graphite coatings on the grains act as an “anti-blocking” agent, preventing the grain
surfaces from fusing, or bonding, together.
An old duPont Blasters’ Handbook states that graphite is used where a free flowing
powder is desired.
Graphite coatings on grains of black powder do not provide any form of moisture
protection when the powder is subjected to humid air. The graphite will only hide the effect
of additional moisture pickup by the powder.
Heavy graphite grain coatings are a way of hiding the effects of the use of an impure
grade of potassium nitrate in a powder.
Some black powder plants add graphite to the powder after corning but prior to the
screening of the powder. The graphite acting as a screening aid to increase the rate at which
the grains will pass through the screens.

 

[necchi]

The Mad Monk is Bill Knight.
Mr. Knight is well in his 80's now, and was/is a member here. His participation with website forums have all but stopped.
He does post occasionally on the ALR, but the subject of powders is so full of myth and misrepresented "knowledge" he grew weary of trying to convince people that "know".
It's still true, all it takes is one 20 something phone sales rep to debunk the fact's, and create more people that "know" :idunno:

 

[excess650]

The Mad Monk is Bill Knight.
Mr. Knight is well in his 80's now, and was/is a member here. His participation with website forums have all but stopped.
He does post occasionally on the ALR, but the subject of powders is so full of myth and misrepresented "knowledge" he grew weary of trying to convince people that "know".
It's still true, all it takes is one 20 something phone sales rep to debunk the fact's, and create more people that "know" :idunno:

I knew his name and locale of residence going back nearly 20 years...didn't think it necessary to put the real name on the nickname.

 

[necchi]

I have already posted previously almost the same quote you made.
It sometimes helps to read a thread.
And the most esteemed Bill Knight aka; The Mad Monk, in no secret.

 

[excess650]

The entire contents at the Lafflin and Rand site was worth reading, and the quoted (and requoted) portion was worth repeating for those who didn't read it the first time. :wink:

 

[necchi]

Absolutely, I've been reading it for years and still have to go back and re-read, there's just so much stuff in those files.

 

[Wes/Tex]

I have already posted previously almost the same quote you made.
It sometimes helps to read a thread.
And the most esteemed Bill Knight aka; The Mad Monk, in no secret.

Bill is one of those great guys in this sport. I certainly miss his participation in the dialog. When Mad Monk made a comment, it was like the Schwab commercial...all talking stops and every ear turns! god bless you Bill, whateer you're up to! Wes :hatsoff:

 

[hanshi]

Well, there you have it; everyone agrees on what "g" stands for. :rotf:

 

[cynthialee]

Actually it was E.F. Hutton...

 

[Archer 756]

:thumbsup: Thanks

 

[Wes/Tex]

Actually it was E.F. Hutton...

You got me ...I was babbling again! :wink: :thumbsup: :rotf: Got my tongue wrapped around my eye-tooth and couldn't see what I was saying! Knew it was E. F. Hutton...no idea where Schwab came from!