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Potzdam 1740 Carbine?

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If the front of the stock was inletted around the top of the stock on both sides and especially if there was inletting inside the barrel channel at the tops on both sides, then no doubt you did add the correct style band. That was perhaps the most common way to do it. There is no way anyone who has not seen your carbine up close could say it was not done correctly.


Gus
 
Do you have any more detail pictures of it you could post? I really like that gun. Looks like it would be quite handy down here in the tight spots.
 
I am not at all qualified to opine on the historical niche into which your most interesting carbine fits, and I am very much enjoying the erudite discussion it has engendered.

I have to comment on the repairs you made to the gun, i.e. the trigger guard and the nose cap. These do not, in any way, detract from the overall appearance of the piece. And that, I think, was your intent. You did well.

May I also offer you a warm Welcome to the Forum? :hatsoff: We are happy to have you here.
 
Thanks for the compliments on the repair. On nice old important pieces like this I try to keep as close as possible to the original. I also have a note under the buttplate pointing out the replacement parts for some future student.
 
IMG_1679_zps7dbjue4h.jpg
[/URL][/img] Better view of ramrod end and nose piece.
IMG_1684_zpss09kf3zo.jpg
[/URL][/img] view of inspector? marks on lockplate
entry pipe
IMG_1682_zpsyycmdbju.jpg
[/URL][/img]
view of replaced triggerguard showing outside profile of original guard. It had two rusty holes for the staple but not sure if original was made this way.
IMG_1681_zps7d2a8tcw.jpg
[/URL][/img]
Buttplate tang.
 
I finally found the pictures buried deep in my computer of the other carbine that the owner was asking about on another forum. Can't remember which forum but believe it was a military history one. At that time there was no information posted about it.There are at least 2 of these out there so must be more.
Potzdam%20not%20mine%201_zpstypbqxi0.jpg
[/URL][/img]
Potzdam%20not%20mine%202_zpsvloria1u.jpg
[/URL][/img]
Potzdam%20not%20mine%203_zpsuueumpy4.jpg
[/URL][/img]
 
Three Steps said:

Nose cap of the other gun.

Wow! A second one.

Like your Carbine, this one shows a flared muzzle as well. This was a somewhat common feature on British Cavalry Carbines of the period that were not designed for bayonets, as well. I don't know why they did that unless they also slightly flared the bore diameter to make for easier loading on a horse. So that begs the question, is the bore diameter of your carbine slightly flared at the muzzle? (It may not be and they just liked the "style" of flared muzzles on Cavalry Carbines.)

Gus
 
Artificer said:
"The hussar was armed with a carbine. Before the Seven Years War the 10 best men in each squadron were issued with better horses and rifled carbines. They also received training in target shooting and reconnaissance work. The curved sabre had 41' long blade."
Gus

Arming a percentage of a troop or squadron with carbine was common practice among German cavalry for the Dragoons and Cuirassier regiments but had seen it mentioned for Hussars this early. It made sense to have a bit of sharpshooting ability available to any scouting unit dn you will notice that a sword with a 41" blade is rather magistic compared to a half century later. If these two carbines are genuine Hussar issue, then they are very interesting and extremely rare. The fact both have teh standard "FR" for Frederick Rex on eh thumbpieces certainly says Prussian military. I so wish all by books werent' scattered all over the house , garage and store room right now...I'd love to search for some more period illustrations on Frederick's hussars and see what there might be on longarms issues.
 
Had a brain storm since the last post and managed to find Vol.2 of Liliane and Fred Funcken's "Arms and Uniforms: The Lace Wars, Part 2"...the title is the generally accepted current term for the elegant uniforms of the early to mid 18th century. I trust Funcken's info and illustrations more than some others, for they based their work on Knotel, who was the master of the period and known for his correctness. The section of Frederick's troops lists 11 regiments of Hussars, the first appearing in 1721 in Prussian service. I don't see evidence of any regimental numbers or Colonel's markings, which is more typical of Prussian firearms. German firearms were more likely to have such markings on butt plate combs or the side plates...though this is no guarantee. There is only one illustration of a Hussar armed with a carbine but the details are sketchy at best. The section on weapons does note the following.

"The sword with a plain iron guard replaced one with a coppper guard which had been in use before 1740. Around 1787 the eighteen-inch flintlock pistol gave way to a more modern type with a conical touch-hole and iron ramrod. The hussar's arsenal was completed by a carbine, of variable length and style.
"The ten 'carabineers' attached to each squadron were equipped with a special rifled gun, with iron ramrod, longer than the normal hussar carbine but also more powerful and accurate.
"Frederick William II, who ruled Prussia from 1786 until 1797, increased the carabineer section from ten men to twelve and armed them with a new rifled carbine only thirty inches long."

If you can find any type of regimental markings, I may be able to help identify the actual Hussar regiment to which it was issued. Seem to be a rather colorful group with regimental nicknames of like "die Schafe": the sheep; "Fleischhacke": the butchers; "Totenkopfe": death's head; "Kanariennvogel": canaries; or the "ganze Tod"; the 8th had black like the 5th but had full skeleton stitching instead of just skulls, so were named 'total death'...logical by German standards! :wink: The 9th was a Bosniak regiment dressed in eastern style and represented thd Turcophilia rampant in European militaries at the time. Hope this helps a little.
 
I have not been able to find any unit markings, inside or out. The barrel has some kind of a cartouche under the wood that just looks like a rough dent now and a couple of file slash marks. There is a cartouche inside the lock plate and all I can make out is a "c". Maybe there was unit markings on the missing trigger guard? Shame if there were some. The pictures of the other gun never showed the triggerguard unfortunately. I can see no evidence where any had been removed either. Unit markings I am familiar with on later arms are deeply stamped and just struck through when changed. Thanks for the info you posted above, I will print it and put it with the gun.
 
Wes/Tex,

Fascinating information. Thank you!

A 41" Cavalry Sabre meant no enemy was safe, even laying down, but it must have been hard to wield.

I may have gotten the wrong impression from some of what you wrote, so wanted to ask for clarification. Did you mean that all 18th Prussian Hussars were armed with a Carbine and perhaps one or more pistols and sword, or did you mean only a percentage of them were armed with carbines (whether smooth bore or rifled) and the rest armed with pistol(s) and sabres?

Gus
 
Oh, another question. I've read where 18th century smoothbore Prussian Military Arms often had the triggers too close to the front of the trigger guards. Is that true?

Gus
 
Sounds kinda bad if they wanted the soldiers to be able to fire with gloves on.
 
EXACTLY!! :haha:

It has also been noted that Prussian Military Arms were often too barrel heavy and caused the troops to shoot too low. Like anything else, when one makes a musket to stand up to the strain of military usage, one CAN go a bit TOO far while trying to make them as sturdy and robust as possible for the hard usage they will get.

Gus
 
Swedish triggerguards from the same time are almost ridiculous big, since the soldiers where outfitted with thick moosehide gloves.
 
After looking into it again, it appears all Hussar troopers had a carbine, one or two pistols (depending on time and circumstance) and a sword. 10, later 12, of each troop were issued rifled cabines for scout or picket duty. How well they were trained to use them is another matter.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Knoe02_von_Reutsch_Husaren.jpg

Though of Napoleonic era, this second illustration shows how the pistol was used by letting the saber hang!
http://www.napolun.com/mirror/web2.airmail.net/napoleon/husaren.jpg
 
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