Possible Wonder Lube Problem

[Grenadier1758]

The patch needs to cover the ball where it contacts the bore. Being perfectly centered is not an issue. That's why square cut patches work. Interestingly, patches cut at the muzzle are not round. Not everyone can sharpen a knife to smoothly cut patch material at the muzzle. All too often I let my knife get dull and cutting a patch is a chore.

 

[AlanG]

I thought precut patches were old hat. I thought serious shooters ALL cut the patch at the muzzle.

That's not even remotly true- target shooters routinly use precuts.

Cutting at the muzzle doesn't ensure perfect patching or centering either. Just starting the ball and cutting will often lead to varying patch diameters- it doesn't get much notice- but varying patch diameters can and do affect accuracy.

If you take a close look at a lot of cut at muzzle patches you will notice that the patch is flush where the knife cut starts, but sticking up a little on the opposite side- that's an off center patch.

 

[AlanG]

Golly, I may not be the smartest cookie, however, the old dead guys seem to have had all this figured out.

They did this with all natural products! Not stuff from 1969 on!

Bee wax was on hand.

Whale oil was available.

Tallow was very obtainable.

Pig, beef or sheep grease was on hand as was deer fat, elk fat and prolly best of all ... BEAR GREASE!

Of these, a combo of a couple of these together and mixed with the help of heat WILL AND DO do the job needed to preserve and protect a vast investment to a person on the frontier with meager means.

Warm or hot water along with a bristle brush and patch's did a proper cleaning job for them AND we still have weapons now from that era that are pristine ... not a rust bucket. Probably a fluke.

Do not mean to be snarky ... but ... come now ... this is way simple and easy. Nothing new has transpired except improvements in metallurgy and stronger steel. Same stuff can and will lube it, AND clean it.

This aint rocket science!!!

There's a lot wrong with that post.

Why on earth is 1969 the technological cut off point/ Why be on the internet- old dead guys sure didn't.

There are a ton of rusted, clapped out old guns- more than pristine for sure- using old school rustproofing is iffy, and certainly can't be relied on for long term storage. Pristine old guns are the exception, not the rule. A product like BC's Barricade is better than any of the old school stuff.

The common mention of "freshing out" barrels seems telling.

The dead old guys didn't have/use brushes or cleaning patches- they used tow. There is also a lot of thought that they didn't use water a lot of the time- just heavy coats of lard or some type of free animal fat.

Bear, whale oil, lard, bees wax pale in comparison to some of the modern lubes.

It's nice to romanticize, but nothing we do today is really like the old days. With the exception of a handfull of builders none of the guns are quite the same. Most builders are a using assemblages of parts. Modern lighting and Stanley Surform files certainly weren't available, neither were screws, drill bits etc, and how many builders are using pump or bow drills etc?

 

[Howard Pippin]

I've never seen where it makes much difference if a patch is exactly centered with the bore...other than making the shooter feel good about the practice. I've played around a lot through the years with different patch arrangements, and never seen any real difference other than the thickness and toughness of the weave. I've watched some of the best shooters I've seen using square patches they whacked out with a pair of scissors. I still cut my own round patches, but I really don't think it makes much difference within reason.

Thank you stony, I've thought the same thing, but never had a chance to prove it. I also experimented a little with not having the sprue centered on top and that didn't seem to make much difference either. Maybe with a six power scope and a bench rest I would see a difference. Those square patches that I use are sure easy to make.

 

[Stony Broke]

One of these days when it cools down around here a little, I think I'll take out a rifle to my range and experiment with patches ( in different shapes) and groups from them. Maybe we can come up with something different between them...but I'm not holding my breath for it !

 

[Dillon W.]

I’m sitting here with my lefty GPR in my lap, admiring her of course; by the way, I’ve named her Charlene, thinking, all I was wondering about was the greasy residue the HOT WATER didn’t get out. Anyways, solved that like 60 comments ago.... I sure do appreciate everyone’s help though. But it certainly looks like everyone has their own way, and that’s the only way... smh. I kinda wished I would have never asked.

 

[bigted]

There's a lot wrong with that post.

Why on earth is 1969 the technological cut off point/ Why be on the internet- old dead guys sure didn't.

There are a ton of rusted, clapped out old guns- more than pristine for sure- using old school rustproofing is iffy, and certainly can't be relied on for long term storage. Pristine old guns are the exception, not the rule. A product like BC's Barricade is better than any of the old school stuff.

The common mention of "freshing out" barrels seems telling.

The dead old guys didn't have/use brushes or cleaning patches- they used tow. There is also a lot of thought that they didn't use water a lot of the time- just heavy coats of lard or some type of free animal fat.

Bear, whale oil, lard, bees wax pale in comparison to some of the modern lubes.

It's nice to romanticize, but nothing we do today is really like the old days. With the exception of a handfull of builders none of the guns are quite the same. Most builders are a using assemblages of parts. Modern lighting and Stanley Surform files certainly weren't available, neither were screws, drill bits etc, and how many builders are using pump or bow drills etc?

Sheesh ... sounds like I may have stepped on your toe somehow friend!

I merely point out that this FORUM is based on "how they did things in old days" with regards to equipment, weapons, trekking, cooking, cleaning and so on.

I am a student of these original ways and means. If this somehow mess's with your serenity, I sincerely apologize. I see folks that offer up very original means to clean and keep weapons that get sniped at for some reason. I for one am at a loss on this practice.

At any rate ... my apology for your discomfort.

 

[AlanG]

Sheesh ... sounds like I may have stepped on your toe somehow friend!

I merely point out that this FORUM is based on "how they did things in old days" with regards to equipment, weapons, trekking, cooking, cleaning and so on.

I am a student of these original ways and means. If this somehow mess's with your serenity, I sincerely apologize. I see folks that offer up very original means to clean and keep weapons that get sniped at for some reason. I for one am at a loss on this practice.

At any rate ... my apology for your discomfort.

I am never really sure about these sort of posts- they seem borderline troll like, but i just take them for face value. I responded to your posts because of the obvious errors, and then you respond to that talking about my "serenity" and "discomfort"- nothing of which is even hinted at in anything I posted- why not rebut what I posted instead? Discussion is kind of the point of these forums. When I am wrong I like to know why or how I'm wrong, not really interested in any "serenity" talk which furthers nothing to me or anybody else on this board.

The vast majority of the posts in the "Firearms" section have very few posts about how things were did in the old days- it's more about shooting old style guns in todays' world. I'm really not sure 1969 would be considered "old days". With all due respect to you being a "student of the original ways" much of what you posted didn't seem very accurate- certainly not bore brushes and the like.

Even when people try to do things "traditional" they are often picking things/techniques from various eras an mixing them. Whale Oil is one. Bristle brushes and patches is another. Most use short starters, which may have not been commonplace. Whale Oil would have been an expensive luxury for much of the flintlock era- it didn't really become cheap until the higher parts of the Bedford/Nantucket etc. whaling which is much more into the caplock era. Olive oil similarly gets mentioned- it would have been a supreme luxury in an era where people were doing "homespun" and the like.

 

[bigted]

Calling me a borderline troll will net you nothing.

1969 should have been 1869.

In the mid 1800' say 1840ish is my favorite era and cappers were indeed the weapon. Whale oil, olive oil, bee wax ect were in use commonly.

Your reply seemed like an antagonistic and pot stirring connotation and I will desist further participation in this pointless debate.

Your point of view is taken and lets just agree to disagree.

Now on with the scheduled program ...

 

[AlanG]

1969 should have been 1869.

Great, puts it in better context

Your reply seemed like an antagonistic and pot stirring connotation and I will desist further participation in this pointless debate.

Not sure how you could see my post as "antagonistic" and "pot stirring" but your post only talks about my "serenity" and "discomfort"?

In the mid 1800' say 1840ish is my favorite era and cappers were indeed the weapon.

Do you have a favorite gun? It was an interesting time for guns but always seems to be hyper focused on the Western Fur Trapper/Hawken point of view.

 

[Griz44Mag]

New Lyman barrels require several shots to get the sharp edges worn off. By several, think over 100 shots. You have a good barrel as they are all shooters, just require an extensive break-in.

This I found to be a fact of life. It took well over a hundred rounds to get my new GPR over the new barrel cleaning issue.
ven the "lightly used" GPR I bought here required a lot of rounds down the tube to get fully settled in.
Like others, use fresh patches and lube at the range or pre-lube fresh for a range trip. I use old cap tins, prelube and stack up enough patches for my anticipated daily range use. Just don't over lube them.
Like many others here, the Wonderless lube seemed a lot of trouble and hard to clean up after. A good gun oil is a lot easier and a lot more effective. IMHO - Mink is king of the lubes, easy to use, year round, hot or cold.
Others here will recommend lapping and grinding a new barrel, but why do that when spending time shooting is a lot more pleasant?
A bad day at the range is better than a good day lapping and grinding. (My .02c worth)

 

[Britsmoothy]

I’m sitting here with my lefty GPR in my lap, admiring her of course; by the way, I’ve named her Charlene, thinking, all I was wondering about was the greasy residue the HOT WATER didn’t get out. Anyways, solved that like 60 comments ago.... I sure do appreciate everyone’s help though. But it certainly looks like everyone has their own way, and that’s the only way... smh. I kinda wished I would have never asked.

Hot water soon is not hot on contact with a cool barrel. One has to keep adding BOILING water until the barrel is near boiling temp.
It's so good it lifts off any leading too.

 

[Griz44Mag]

I’m sitting here with my lefty GPR in my lap, admiring her of course; by the way, I’ve named her Charlene, thinking, all I was wondering about was the greasy residue the HOT WATER didn’t get out. Anyways, solved that like 60 comments ago.... I sure do appreciate everyone’s help though. But it certainly looks like everyone has their own way, and that’s the only way... smh. I kinda wished I would have never asked.

YUP, opinions are everywhere, and some here, the "expurts" will get belligerent and downright offensive if you don't accept without condition THEIR version of what is best for everyone else. You will find your own way, you will succeed, you will be great, doing it your way.

 

[bigted]

Great, puts it in better context



I favor the hawken brothers half stocks and Santa for hawkins


Not sure how you could see my post as "antagonistic" and "pot stirring" but your post only talks about my "serenity" and "discomfort"?




Do you have a favorite gun? It was an interesting time for guns but always seems to be hyper focused on the Western Fur Trapper/Hawken point of view.

 

[dlpowell]

Sharp edges on rifling is nothing new. One old remedy is to wrap steel wool around your worm and run it in n out like your cleaning.
Mink oil in Oklahoma melts like ice cream. 50/50 by volume bees wax and cooking oil. Best lube out there.

 

[bisleyjohn]

Really? Steel wool - precious rifle barrel? Your'e having me on surely?

 

[Zonie]

No. He's not "having you on". Using steel wool to dull the sharp corners on the edges of the rifling grooves is not only a good idea but it is one of the safest ways to do the job.

The steel wool is no harder than the steel in the barrel so although it does dull up the sharp edges of the grooves, it doesn't remove much material. Using steel wool is also one of the faster, safe ways to do the job.

I've seen people talk about using valve grinding compound, silicone carbide sand paper and things like Scotch-Brite pads to "break in" a barrel which is another term for dulling up the sharp rifling edges.
All of these have extremely hard abrasives in/on them. Yes, they will dull up the sharp edges fast but because they are much harder than the barrel, they will also remove material from the bore.

Of course, if someone doesn't care if it takes 100 + shots to do the same job with patched balls then they should probably use that method because it is the safest way to do the job.

 

[SDSmlf]

Spoke with Don Getz (Getz Barrel) years ago and he recommended using the green (600 grit) Scotch-Brite for smoothing up barrels that were cutting patches. Said it wouldn’t hurt the barrel.

If you are worried about it being too aggressive, you could try the light grey (6-800 grit) or the white (1000 grit).

 

[Britsmoothy]

Wire wool is probably kinder than scotch brights that contain carbides or such.

 

[Newtire]

I used the ox yoke patches lubed with the wonder lube and had nary a problem with them. Cleaned the bore with moose milk at the range and flushed hot water thru it once I got home. These days it's Barricade on everything. Haven't had a hint of rust with that stuff ever.