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possible bag and shooting bag?
- Thread starter jrbaker90
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Treestalker
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You need a shooting bag for your ML gun tools and supplies and a separate 'possibles' bag for sewing kit, whiskey flask, cooking gear and food, spare socks and knit cap, fire kit, etc. Most folks use a lea thern bag and strap for the gun bag, and many use a flat, square, strapped canvas or linen bag with a flap on it for the possibles.
How do we carry, what? 
The "possibles bag" over the past four decades, appears from research to be more of a 20th century thing, than what they carried in the Fur Trade Era, and very much not what they carried in the 18th century.
Carrying everything that you could possibly need is a tall order for a single bag. And I confess when I started in BP in the 1970's I had a whopping large bag for my shooting bag.
I tend to portray a Maryland Ranger from the F&I or the period between the F&I and the AWI, so I carry in my shooting bag, a bag mold, a tiny ladle, some rifle tools and flints and patching material and patch knife, ball, a compass, and a tinder box. My horn holds a pound of powder. My bag is on the "large" side of shooting bags, but isn't nearly as large as the possibles-bag of my youth. The rest of the stuff I take into the field goes into a one strap pack.
IF I'm going overnight, I make a tumpline out of a blanket rolled around a market wallet; the wallet having been treated with beeswax to ward off water, and the one strap "day pack" stays home.
LD
The "possibles bag" over the past four decades, appears from research to be more of a 20th century thing, than what they carried in the Fur Trade Era, and very much not what they carried in the 18th century.
Carrying everything that you could possibly need is a tall order for a single bag. And I confess when I started in BP in the 1970's I had a whopping large bag for my shooting bag.
I tend to portray a Maryland Ranger from the F&I or the period between the F&I and the AWI, so I carry in my shooting bag, a bag mold, a tiny ladle, some rifle tools and flints and patching material and patch knife, ball, a compass, and a tinder box. My horn holds a pound of powder. My bag is on the "large" side of shooting bags, but isn't nearly as large as the possibles-bag of my youth. The rest of the stuff I take into the field goes into a one strap pack.
IF I'm going overnight, I make a tumpline out of a blanket rolled around a market wallet; the wallet having been treated with beeswax to ward off water, and the one strap "day pack" stays home.
LD
The terms 'possible bag'; 'shooting bag'; and 'haversack' have become hopelessly jumbled in definitions. It is easier to argue about WD-40. A small to medium bag will meet your shooting needs. From there you can go all the way from a large haversack to a pack mule. Do yer own thang and enjoy.
A small to medium bag will meet your shooting needs. From there you can go all the way from a large haversack to a pack mule. Do yer own thang and enjoy.
One of the few surviving riflemans shirts sport pockets. Coats and vest from the time also sport big pockets. Shirts back then were usually tucked in, even out people wear a belt at the waist and that leaves a natural pocket and we read of things stuffed in the shirt, or in a space above the belt on a riflemans coat.
What do you need to carry?
Do you need eating utensils, sharping stone,fire and smoke kit, can, spare moccs, house wife,flask of the creature, glasses box, spice kit, salt horn, mold ladle and lead, kitchen sink, just to walk around camp?
People hunting would often carry just shooting gear maybe smoke and fire kit, and leave the most at home.
A man on a long hunt or moving into the frontier would have a pack horse or canoe/boat of some sort.
Someone forced to go on foot over a long distance who could prepare in advance would have some sort of sack like a snap sack, knapsack or a blanket tied on the ends and slung over the shoulder... a snap sack on the fly.
Maybe a militia man might have found a haversack handy for ‘possibles’, and that’s what I stuff in mine, but I use that for camp storage, we don’t know that it was done in the past.
A small split bag stuffed in your shirt may serve for basic need 99% of the time.
What do you need to carry?
Do you need eating utensils, sharping stone,fire and smoke kit, can, spare moccs, house wife,flask of the creature, glasses box, spice kit, salt horn, mold ladle and lead, kitchen sink, just to walk around camp?
People hunting would often carry just shooting gear maybe smoke and fire kit, and leave the most at home.
A man on a long hunt or moving into the frontier would have a pack horse or canoe/boat of some sort.
Someone forced to go on foot over a long distance who could prepare in advance would have some sort of sack like a snap sack, knapsack or a blanket tied on the ends and slung over the shoulder... a snap sack on the fly.
Maybe a militia man might have found a haversack handy for ‘possibles’, and that’s what I stuff in mine, but I use that for camp storage, we don’t know that it was done in the past.
A small split bag stuffed in your shirt may serve for basic need 99% of the time.
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Stophel
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I never was big on the "possibles bag" idea. I don't like a tiny shot bag either, but I don't want too much junk in it. Just gun stuff. Don't want to have to rummage around through a bunch of stuff in the bag when you're trying to reload!
As was said, make use of pockets. People today for some reason want to avoid pockets and put everything in some pouch(es) on their Bat belt. 200+ years ago, people had pockets in their breeches, pockets in their coats, pockets in their vests, even pockets in their hunting shirts. Pockets are perfect for carrying various doo-dads. Even horns and flasks were carried in pockets.
For other stuff not generally needed right away, I second the use of a pack of some kind. I've tried to use a snapsack, and it would be fine, but the single shoulder strap presses on the one spot on my shoulder near the base of my neck where, I guess, the nerve bundle is where you're supposed to give someone a karate chop or the Vulcan neck pinch to knock them out. It doesn't take long for it to really start to hurt me. I can handle a lightweight shot bag hanging from one shoulder, but not a heavier snapsack/blanket strap. So, a two strap pack will have to do for me. The straps sit in slightly different positions, so they don't press on the one spot. I need to get my lazy butt up and make myself a good 18th century pack.
As was said, make use of pockets. People today for some reason want to avoid pockets and put everything in some pouch(es) on their Bat belt. 200+ years ago, people had pockets in their breeches, pockets in their coats, pockets in their vests, even pockets in their hunting shirts. Pockets are perfect for carrying various doo-dads. Even horns and flasks were carried in pockets.
For other stuff not generally needed right away, I second the use of a pack of some kind. I've tried to use a snapsack, and it would be fine, but the single shoulder strap presses on the one spot on my shoulder near the base of my neck where, I guess, the nerve bundle is where you're supposed to give someone a karate chop or the Vulcan neck pinch to knock them out. It doesn't take long for it to really start to hurt me. I can handle a lightweight shot bag hanging from one shoulder, but not a heavier snapsack/blanket strap. So, a two strap pack will have to do for me. The straps sit in slightly different positions, so they don't press on the one spot. I need to get my lazy butt up and make myself a good 18th century pack.
ADK Bigfoot
54 Cal.
+1 on pockets.
When not in period clothing, I day hunt with a wool vest with two front pockets in which I carry up to ten reloads for whatever I am carrying (10 balls, patches, loads (I pre-measure powder, so no horn/measure)), and 20 patches for wiping (10 wet, 10 dry). The other pocket has two flints, a small turnscrew, a spare leather, a short starter, and a small priming horn. My vent pick is a pin attached to the front of the vest. Everything I need to load/shoot right in front. If I dry ball or have a serious issue needing tools, I return to camp, or vehicle.
When hunting in period clothing, my waist coat serves the same purpose in its two generous front pockets.
If I am on a "trek" or plan to be out a couple of days, I carry a small bag or pack with tools; cleaning jags, bullet puller, patch worm, crud cutter and a small cleaning kit; sometimes even a ladle, mold, and bar of lead, plus a powder horn and measure. My shooting patches are lubed with bear oil or other grease, and can be used to wipe down the rifle if needed.
I used to carry "the kitchen sink" until I found that I never used the vast majority of what I was carrying.
ADK Bigfoot
When not in period clothing, I day hunt with a wool vest with two front pockets in which I carry up to ten reloads for whatever I am carrying (10 balls, patches, loads (I pre-measure powder, so no horn/measure)), and 20 patches for wiping (10 wet, 10 dry). The other pocket has two flints, a small turnscrew, a spare leather, a short starter, and a small priming horn. My vent pick is a pin attached to the front of the vest. Everything I need to load/shoot right in front. If I dry ball or have a serious issue needing tools, I return to camp, or vehicle.
When hunting in period clothing, my waist coat serves the same purpose in its two generous front pockets.
If I am on a "trek" or plan to be out a couple of days, I carry a small bag or pack with tools; cleaning jags, bullet puller, patch worm, crud cutter and a small cleaning kit; sometimes even a ladle, mold, and bar of lead, plus a powder horn and measure. My shooting patches are lubed with bear oil or other grease, and can be used to wipe down the rifle if needed.
I used to carry "the kitchen sink" until I found that I never used the vast majority of what I was carrying.
ADK Bigfoot
Cruzatte
50 Cal.
As so many above have stated, I too am going down the minimalist route. My shooting pouch carries only the bare necessities; ball, wadding, (I'm a smooth bore shooter) 1 flint, powder measure, a turn screw, worm, a ball puller, vent pick, and some cleaning patches for wiping the bore between shots. And that's about it. Other things like a breech plug scraper, lead, ladle, ball mold, tin of grease, gun oil, etc., stay back in camp.
I do have a haversack. In it, I carry food, a tin cup, a pewter spoon, pipe & tobacco, sharpening stone, folding knife, and a fire starting kit.
I'll be ordering a market wallet (some things are cheaper to purchase, than to make) in which will be kept a shirt, spare pair of moccasins, spare pair of moccasin liners, a cotton kerchief, knit cap, mittens, sewing kit, modern pair of glasses & case, and a bag of tinder perhaps.
I do have a haversack. In it, I carry food, a tin cup, a pewter spoon, pipe & tobacco, sharpening stone, folding knife, and a fire starting kit.
I'll be ordering a market wallet (some things are cheaper to purchase, than to make) in which will be kept a shirt, spare pair of moccasins, spare pair of moccasin liners, a cotton kerchief, knit cap, mittens, sewing kit, modern pair of glasses & case, and a bag of tinder perhaps.
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I hunt and shoot with a shooting bag. Only holds what it takes to shoot and maintain a firelock. The other stuff for eating or camp use I carry in a haversack or bedroll.
Brokennock
Cannon
Shooting stuff in the shot pouch. Everything else, in something else. Leaving the shot pouch aside, as we have established it is a shot pouch and it contains what is needed to shoot, a snap sack is great for much of the "everything else." As can be a market wallet, or a blanket roll with a hopus strap. A lot depends on what and how much the "everything else," entails. And, how screwed will you be in an emergency without it. My everything else bag contains a full blown fire making kit, from flint and steel to charred and uncharred punkwood, cattail tops, dry tinder, a few sticks of fat wood, tinder tube, etc. As well as lunch, and whatever else I need for that outing, sometimes divided between a single strap shoulder bag of waxed/oiled cotton sold as a haversack, and a wool blanket rolled with stuff inside. But, one could be easy to be separated from the bag or blanket roll. So, I have a small bag on my belt, or small wallet folded over my belt or sash, that has another smaller fire kit, just char, flint and steel, and a tinder tube. Also a compass, small map of the a.o. if I have one, folding knife, and some twine. Belt knife is on my belt, shot pouch and horn are over my shoulder, I am never separated from the belt pouch, shot pouch, horn, belt knife, or flintlock.
Go with a big, "all in one" bag and you will always find what you need in it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, at the very bottom under everything else you don't need at the moment.
I wish we could erase "possibles bag," from the lexicon.
Go with a big, "all in one" bag and you will always find what you need in it,,,,,,,,,,,,,, at the very bottom under everything else you don't need at the moment.
I wish we could erase "possibles bag," from the lexicon.
Cruzatte
50 Cal.
Amen!:thumbs up:
If I changed the title, there would still be the OP's use of the term in the new post.
If I changed that, there would still be several posts that explain the term isn't something that, in the posters mind, should be used. If the term was removed, these posts wouldn't make any sense to someone in the future who is reading this topic.
In other words, it would just cause confusion down the road. Besides, there are a lot of people who do use the term, right or wrong, so I'm going to leave things like they are.
If I changed that, there would still be several posts that explain the term isn't something that, in the posters mind, should be used. If the term was removed, these posts wouldn't make any sense to someone in the future who is reading this topic.
In other words, it would just cause confusion down the road. Besides, there are a lot of people who do use the term, right or wrong, so I'm going to leave things like they are.
I THINK, can’t prove ‘bags for every possible thing’ was an old term, not for a shooting bag but for other random sacks. I’ve read it was a translation from an (unknown) Indian term.
Brokennock
Cannon
I didn't mean in the title, or in this topic. I meant I wish we could erase it from everyone's mind entirely, like it never came to be.....
There were belt bags used in the old days, often as shooting bags. We don’t see a lot of paintings sowing double bags on folks. An exception being military with haversack on one side and cartridge box on the other.
People shown on the move often have some sort of back pack instead of belt bags.
People shown on the move often have some sort of back pack instead of belt bags.
Stophel
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18th century bags and packs are something I have studied quite a bit. I've looked at everything I could find. (19th century, I know squat... )
Some people did use belt-mounted shot bags...but these are not huge, only carrying balls, flints, and gun stuff. Most people don't really want to carry a large, heavy bag on their belt. I don't see belt bags being really used for anything else (again, people had pockets). Even as shot bags, they're relatively uncommon.
For most other "stuff", people carried snapsacks or knapsacks. I could probably show about a bazillion 18th century images of people carrying snapsacks. Ok, maybe not that many, but a bunch. It's a tubular shaped drawstring bag with a single shoulder strap, carried diagonally across the back, or sideways, across both shoulders, as people carry a blanket hoppus. In the first half of the 18th century, the British army issued hair-on goatskin snapsacks, replaced later with two-strap knapsacks. (I expect that the terms were somewhat interchangeable at the time, as so many other terms were, and snapsacks were probably often called "knapsacks", and possibly vice versa.) As I've said before, the single strap snapsack unfortunately don't work for me, so I need a two strap knapsack, which I intend to start working on soon. We know of a few Revolutionary War American knapsacks. Mostly of the single-pocket flat-envelope variety. Two I know of are hair-on hide. Other period images I have of two-strap knapsacks (and I don't have very many), show huge, bulbous packs, definitely not the flat single pocket envelope...however, these images are all frustratingly completely lacking in discernable detail. I can offer no insight as to how they might have been made.
Occasionally you will see people with large bundles. Stuff wrapped up in what I assume is a sheet of fabric or a blanket, rolled up into a cylindrical form, with leather straps around it to hold it together, and leather straps run through those straps to go around the shoulders.
I have also seen one 18th century illustration showing a man with a portmanteau carried diagonally across his back with a single shoulder strap. Unfortunately, I don't think I have that picture saved. Dangit.
People would often carry a "wallet" (a word which can be used to describe almost anything). Today very trendily called a "market wallet" (which kinda makes me cringe). A simple two-ended bag with a slit opening in the middle. These were dirt-common, but honestly, I don't see them as being too practical for running around in the woods.
Some Indians would use a "slit pouch"...which is essentially a small leather wallet, hanging over a waist belt, and I have seen one image with one lopped over top of his powder horn. As I recall, I may have seen an image somewhere of a White man with a similar thing on his belt, but I'm not sure about that.
Now...everybody's favorite... the "haversack" type shoulder bag.... Despite the cries that ONLY the military ever used such a thing, I do have 18th century images of genuine non-military people with haversack-type shoulder bags. Not many (I can think offhand of only two), but they do exist. Personally, I HATE swinging shoulder bags with an unbridled PASSION, and I really don't see the attraction.... So you probably won't see me with one except when I'm shopping at a trade fair.
Now, with all this discussion, I don't think we have even established what jrbaker90 actually wants! He may not be looking for anything historical at all!
)Some people did use belt-mounted shot bags...but these are not huge, only carrying balls, flints, and gun stuff. Most people don't really want to carry a large, heavy bag on their belt. I don't see belt bags being really used for anything else (again, people had pockets). Even as shot bags, they're relatively uncommon.
For most other "stuff", people carried snapsacks or knapsacks. I could probably show about a bazillion 18th century images of people carrying snapsacks. Ok, maybe not that many, but a bunch. It's a tubular shaped drawstring bag with a single shoulder strap, carried diagonally across the back, or sideways, across both shoulders, as people carry a blanket hoppus. In the first half of the 18th century, the British army issued hair-on goatskin snapsacks, replaced later with two-strap knapsacks. (I expect that the terms were somewhat interchangeable at the time, as so many other terms were, and snapsacks were probably often called "knapsacks", and possibly vice versa.) As I've said before, the single strap snapsack unfortunately don't work for me, so I need a two strap knapsack, which I intend to start working on soon. We know of a few Revolutionary War American knapsacks. Mostly of the single-pocket flat-envelope variety. Two I know of are hair-on hide. Other period images I have of two-strap knapsacks (and I don't have very many), show huge, bulbous packs, definitely not the flat single pocket envelope...however, these images are all frustratingly completely lacking in discernable detail. I can offer no insight as to how they might have been made.
Occasionally you will see people with large bundles. Stuff wrapped up in what I assume is a sheet of fabric or a blanket, rolled up into a cylindrical form, with leather straps around it to hold it together, and leather straps run through those straps to go around the shoulders.
I have also seen one 18th century illustration showing a man with a portmanteau carried diagonally across his back with a single shoulder strap.
Unfortunately, I don't think I have that picture saved. Dangit.People would often carry a "wallet" (a word which can be used to describe almost anything). Today very trendily called a "market wallet" (which kinda makes me cringe). A simple two-ended bag with a slit opening in the middle. These were dirt-common, but honestly, I don't see them as being too practical for running around in the woods.
Some Indians would use a "slit pouch"...which is essentially a small leather wallet, hanging over a waist belt, and I have seen one image with one lopped over top of his powder horn. As I recall, I may have seen an image somewhere of a White man with a similar thing on his belt, but I'm not sure about that.
Now...everybody's favorite... the "haversack" type shoulder bag.... Despite the cries that ONLY the military ever used such a thing, I do have 18th century images of genuine non-military people with haversack-type shoulder bags. Not many (I can think offhand of only two), but they do exist. Personally, I HATE swinging shoulder bags with an unbridled PASSION, and I really don't see the attraction.... So you probably won't see me with one except when I'm shopping at a trade fair.
Now, with all this discussion, I don't think we have even established what jrbaker90 actually wants! He may not be looking for anything historical at all!
Brokennock
Cannon
Thanks Stophel. Great info as always.
Often with these threads there are more folks learning from someone else's question than the just the person who originally asked it. Especially when someone chimes in with good research.
Often with these threads there are more folks learning from someone else's question than the just the person who originally asked it. Especially when someone chimes in with good research.
I have a market wallet I use to carry my food in for an event. I’ve seen a photo of an Italian street vender with a big market wallet holding his wares hung around his neck with the envelopes on both sides.
They will carry goods but I wouldn’t want to try to go to far with one
They will carry goods but I wouldn’t want to try to go to far with one
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