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Position of touch hole

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jsb30

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Read a article that said touch hole should be above top of pan slightly with powder level at bottom of touch hole. How many agree or disagree with this.
 
I agree with this. Each rifle may be a bit different but I have found generally that less powder is better then too much, and may even fill a bit below the touch hole to avoid powder flow into the touch hole while carrying the rifle.
 
I agree that the center of the touch hole should be slightly above the top of the pan and centered on the center of the pan. The priming powder should be placed along the bottom of the pan filling about half the pan. I have some flint locks that like a little more powder near the touch hole. All seem to like having the touch hole picked. I have seen touch holes with various placements. They have been toward the bottom of the pan and some a bit higher than the "sunset" position. All have worked with the powder in the pan banked appropriately. With the touch hole at the bottom of the pan, it is difficult to lay the priming powder in the pan while hunting to be in a consistent optimal position.
 
I’m a sun setter. A line drawn across the top and touch hole bisecting that line. Powder should be below it.
Learn to follow through in the field as you carry the gun you might get grains in the hole that slow the ignition. Won’t be noticed shooting at a range.
Why there when higher is better? Cause it looks best to me
 
Precisely where it’s placed is a small thing but it does affect speed to some extent. A slickly tuned fast lock with great geometry, a well placed and sized touchhole, a good frizzen and sharp flint, and fine priming all add up to a gun that fires as fast as it possibly can.... one or two of these can be less than ideal and you’ll still have a plenty fast gun.
 
Another sunsetter here. Draw line across top of pan flats. Center punch hole in the center of the pan on this line. If drilled right, the line will intersect the touch hole, and put the touch hole above the bottom of the pan.
 
I don't really know about best flash hole position in relation to pan height, from experience . Most say the sunset position in relation to the top of the pan and centered is best. I have tested exterior funneling and flash hole progressively increased diameter until I got improved ignition speed and reliability.
Seems to me that the best placement is where ever the most sparks can be generated to penetrate the flash hole. I wonder if a vertical fence on the end of the pan , just out side the frizzen width ,would have any beneficial effect?
 
I wonder if a vertical fence on the end of the pan , just out side the frizzen width ,would have any beneficial effect?
Interesting thought. My analogy is this: Yes, it would increase probability of ignition, but would not increase speed. Just my two cents.
Flintlocklar 🇺🇲
 
Interesting thought. My analogy is this: Yes, it would increase probability of ignition, but would not increase speed. Just my two cents.
Flintlocklar 🇺🇲
I was thinking a back board (fence) as it were, like in basket ball , would both corral the spark shower and rebound the pan ignition into the flash hole. It might be an aid to poorly designed locks or poor flash hole placement.
The down side is it would surely direct moisture into the prime in a down pour.
 
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Mine have the flash hole above the pan bottom but below the pan top, and centered. I have heard of others with "off centered", etc. touch holes that still worked fast and reliably; but I won't accept one like that.
 
I was thinking a back board (fence) as it were, like in basket ball , would both corral the spark shower and rebound the pan ignition into the flash hole.
The down side is it would surely direct moisture into the prime in a down pour.
I've decided I would rather have the flash hole a bit forward in the pan rather than a cut out in the breech face that is hard to clean. Still I wanted the vent in the sunset position to the pan and so set the barrel breech rearward .250 which kept all the vent threads in the barrel wall.
So far my experimental tool steel liner with the interior contour matching the bore radius and the funnel on the out side is working superbly! it makes it easier to clean the breech area also.
Fast/reliable ignition and less outward vectored vent blast although it will still burn your pinky (as I found out the last match), if left in front of it at discharge. Owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwch ! 😄 A painful object lesson I will not soon forget!
 
Most of my flint locks have flash guards. These are vertical attachments to prevent the pan flash from being directed toward shooters on the flash hole side of the barrel. I can't tell any difference in speed of ignition between those with a flash guard and those without.
 
Most of my flint locks have flash guards. These are vertical attachments to prevent the pan flash from being directed toward shooters on the flash hole side of the barrel. I can't tell any difference in speed of ignition between those with a flash guard and those without.
Can I see a picture of your flash guards?
 
This is the Flash guard on my Derringer rifle.

P8241068.JPG


This is the flash guard on my Long Land Pattern (Brown Bess)

Bess Lock.JPG


This is a photo of my Harper's Ferry and the Derringer.

Harpers_Ferry_01.JPG


This is the most common of the aftermarket and simplest to install, the flash guard for a Siler lock with the frizzen bolt replaced and a nut that can be removed by using a rifle sized nipple wrench. Below is the Derringer rifle before Mike Lea modified it for the flash guard.

1607956641325.png
 
The Derringer rifle has an L&R Late English lock. When I first started shooting it, I could easily perceive a lag in ignition. I shot it for a while and really wanted a flash guard because in some matches, the shooter to my right would justifiably complain about the pan flash and touch hole blast. After sending my locks off to L&R for tuning and a tumbler upgrade, they were sent off to Mike Lea and Daughter for installation of the flash guard. I sort of thought that having the flash guard in place would keep the flash and heat in the pan directed more to the touch hole and time of ignition improved. I think that the new tumbler and the smoothing out through use really were the reason that lock times improved.

The lock on my smoothbore was a Siler and I bought the flash guard kit for reason of keeping the touch hole blast from the shooter to my right and because of the ease of installation. I only had to remove the bolt for the frizzen to replace it with a longer one and install the flash guard by installing the fastener with my nipple wrench.

My SMR with the L&R Manton lock does not have a flash guard, but I had learned a lot about polishing the as delivered parts. That lock is also very fast.

I think some time to take one's lock apart to look for those points of roughness to polish the points of contact and properly grease those points and smoothing out the various axles of rotation in the tumbler and frizzen are the most important aspect of improving lock speed.
 
The Derringer rifle has an L&R Late English lock. When I first started shooting it, I could easily perceive a lag in ignition. I shot it for a while and really wanted a flash guard because in some matches, the shooter to my right would justifiably complain about the pan flash and touch hole blast. After sending my locks off to L&R for tuning and a tumbler upgrade, they were sent off to Mike Lea and Daughter for installation of the flash guard. I sort of thought that having the flash guard in place would keep the flash and heat in the pan directed more to the touch hole and time of ignition improved. I think that the new tumbler and the smoothing out through use really were the reason that lock times improved.

The lock on my smoothbore was a Siler and I bought the flash guard kit for reason of keeping the touch hole blast from the shooter to my right and because of the ease of installation. I only had to remove the bolt for the frizzen to replace it with a longer one and install the flash guard by installing the fastener with my nipple wrench.

My SMR with the L&R Manton lock does not have a flash guard, but I had learned a lot about polishing the as delivered parts. That lock is also very fast.

I think some time to take one's lock apart to look for those points of roughness to polish the points of contact and properly grease those points and smoothing out the various axles of rotation in the tumbler and frizzen are the most important aspect of improving lock speed.
Thank you for the pictures, That is a very good improvement you have there in my view,especially for match fire use. How hard is it to clean?
I think I'm going to fabricate one for my rifle and try it.
 
Another sunsetter here. Draw line across top of pan flats. Center punch hole in the center of the pan on this line. If drilled right, the line will intersect the touch hole, and put the touch hole above the bottom of the pan.
I bought this used and don't know if MVTC drilled it or not but it seems to be in the perfect position. The frizzen is tight and I only use a little prime - instant ignition every time.

20201214_131747_resized.jpg
 
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