Poorly centered nipple

[Ames]

I'll do my best to describe it without pics. It's a Lyman GPR, cap lock. The factory did a Wonderful job :barf: of setting the bolster and the lock.
When viewed from the side, the nipple is just inside the front edge of the cup. Not even close to centered. This has lead to a gun that fires a cap only 50% of the time! If it were a regular cap lock I would change out the powder drum and drill the nipple in the correct location. Given that it has the hooked breech and bolster I don't want to try to get a new, un drilled for a nipple bolster. Not sure that I am the guy to pull one of those off.
My question to the gun builders out there is...do I heat up the hammer and put a slight bend in it forward to get it better centered on the nipple? Or, carve out the end of the tang and the butt of the same to allow me to slide the barrel back an 8th of an inch. There is room in the slots for the tennons. There is room behind the barrel rib to the nose cap, and the stock will be refinished as well.
I'm leaning towards sliding the barrel back. What's your opinion?
Thank you in advance for your thoughts.

 

[hawkeye2]

For me heating and bending the hammer would be the fastest and easiest solution. You wouldn't have to bend it much. When it's centered I would check to see that it's striking the nipple squarely and if needed grind the face of the inside of the cup with a small stone to correct it. That could be done with a Dremel stone in a pin vise. Now if you really need an excuse to refinish the stock......

 

[coloradoclyde]

If I understand the way you describe it, I have a couple questions....
1. is the nipple cross threaded? (Also the proper thread)
2. is the nipple too long?( would a shorter nipple strike more centered?)
3. is the nipple mushroomed slightly. ( do the caps fit really tight)

 

[Scota4570]

Bend the hammer.

Put something, maybe a drill bit shank, in the hammer nose recess to prevent damaging it. I typically grab the bottom part of the hammer in a vice. Pad the hammer with a couple of pennies. Grab it thin ways. Heat the hammer between the nose and the ear with a torch to red hot. Bend with a crescent wrench. It should bend easy when hot enough.

Sliding be barrel back is problematical. The tang wood screw hole can be plugged and re drilled. The machine screw one will require more creativity to relocate.

 

[ol vern]

What Clyed said, also is the barrel all the way back in the hooked
breach?

 

[coloradoclyde]

What Clyed said, also is the barrel all the way back in the hooked
breach?

Forgot about that and have had it happen.... :thumbsup:

 

[Ames]

Right nipple, not cross threaded. I'll check to hook area to make sure its all the way back.
Plugging the wood screw and re drilling no problem. If I move things backwards I would have to elongate the hole for the machine screws new angle and change the angle slightly for the nut that receives it.

 

[coloradoclyde]

If I move things backwards I would have to elongate the hole for the machine screws new angle and change the angle slightly for the nut that receives it.

:shocked2:

I don't think anyone was suggesting you "move things backwards" by altering the gun.

Just remove the barrel clean the hooked breech socket and reinstall....it should drop in freely.
Sometimes gunk or debris accumulated in the socket, and that pushes the barrel ahead slightly.
It also may not have been properly fitted if the gun has always been this way....Some minor adjusting may be required...there should be no gap between the barrel and breech socket when installed.

Any chance you can post a photo of the nipple area.. top and side view?

 

[Ames]

Sorry. I was the one suggesting moving things backwards rather than bending metal. That would result in playing with the screw holes when I'm done.
The hook and all seem clean with a nice metal to metal fit. Nothing gumming up the works. Just looks like the whole system was inlet an eighth inch too far forward.

 

[ZUG]

Bending the hammer would be the correct way to fix the issue :v . My two cents :wink:

 

[Larry Akers]

I think I'd bend the hammer but you can try filing a V-notch in the front of the hammer cup to the depth of the cup. This often will eliminate interference of the side of the cup and allow the hammer to hit the nipple with more force. It also allows a spent cap which has wedged in the cup to be easily removed.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Once verifying that no other structural problems exist....I would also bend the hammer....
it is very easy...

 

[Ames]

A bending we will go...A bending we will go...

 

[crockett]

Same thought- bend the hammer, if you start moving things around- create all sorts of issues. Tang bolts into trigger plates, etc.
THAT SAID....usually when a hammer is bent it is to correct a side to side problem and it is pretty easy to do that bend, when you have to bend open or close (front to back) there is a lot more resistance. To be honest- I've only done the sideways bend- cold in a vise.
You better get some real world help on how to open or bend forward. It would seem to move the hammer back you could use a vise to close it a little but how to open it a bit- different issue.

 

[ZUG]

The hammer will bend for & aft very easy with enough heat just don't over heat it. I use an acetylene torch and get it red at the hammer bend and then move the hammer in the direction I want to go. Don't over do the bending a little goes a long way :v .

 

[crockett]

If you want to bend it forward or open the bend more- how to you clamp it and how do you open it up a little?
Do you get any spring? Sometimes when I do this type of thing I'll put some pressure on the part but it will bounce back a little. I have gone very slow, increasing the move just a hair at a time.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Last hammer I bent was on a T/C hawken....Was given to me without a hammer and the new hammer didn't line up

Clamped it in a bench vise and took a mapp torch to it....used the box end of a wrench to lock onto the front of the hammer and provide bending leverage....Bent very easily....Be gentle....

 

[ZUG]

If you want to bend it forward or open the bend more- how to you clamp it and how do you open it up a little?
Do you get any spring? Sometimes when I do this type of thing I'll put some pressure on the part but it will bounce back a little. I have gone very slow, increasing the move just a hair at a time.

I use a oxy/acetylene torch with a fine tip ("O") to get it red hot at the hammer bend. I clamp the lower portion of the hammer in a good vise very tightly. When red hot I place the end of a adjustable wrench (the hole) over the hammer nose and apply pressure to either open or close the hammer nose. You don't want to apply pressure on the very end of the hammer nose or you will collapse the nose cup. I get no spring.