Pipe in the possibles bag

[Steel Hayes]

It looks to me like a dirk.

I was thinking the same thing.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I'm struck by the knife Hugh is holding in the picture. It looks to me like a dirk. If it is, I take it as a welcome historic justification.

I thought the same thing... It sure looks like a dirk.

If I remember correctly, Hugh was born in Montreal in 1798. His father was a Scot, and a captain in the British army. Hugh's mother was French Canadian. She gave Hugh a fine old French pistol when he left home for the west. It would not surprise me a bit if his dad had presented him with a traditional Scottish weapon on the same occasion. Hugh lived a long time. I think that photograph was taken in 1896, shortly before he passed away

There were a lot of Scots employed by the HBC. If you get a chance, look for a copy of In the Company of Adventurers, by Isaac Cowie, who was himself a Scot employed by the HBC in the 1860's and seventies. That book is his memoir of the time he spent with the Company, primarily in Saskatchewan, and it is an easy but fascinating read.

Anyway, the photo clearly shows a flintlock trade gun and powder horn, and that sure does look like a dirk in the old fellow's right hand. I think Hugh is taking advantage of the "photo op" to show off his old weapons. He probably enjoyed handling them. I expect they were tangible reminders of his younger days... Epic hunts, daring raids, and fierce battles.

The link in my post that says "Hugh Monroe's Pistol" will take you to a digitized issue of Outing magazine, which has an article with that title. I was hoping the link would take you directly to that article, but it looks like you get the whole journal, but that article is in there. It tells a lot about Hugh Monroe and his early days with the HBC, and it tells about the French pistol his mother gave him. I don't remember anything in it about a dirk, but you have the photograph, which could probably be enlarged to provide a better look. That might be a topic for another thread.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[toot]

Townsend’s

thank you.

 

[toot]

I was hooked on CAPTAIN BLACK, CHERRY BLEND.

 

[toot]

yes it surely looks to be a SCOTISH DIRK.??

 

[toot]

but why, show it in the period picture?? and no sheath is visible?

 

[Mad L]

Hey guys, where you getting your clay pipes from?

Penn Valley Pipes
https://shop.pipeshoppe.com/
My go-to for Clay pipes, never got a bad one from them and many to choose from! From time to time they even have old time Corncob pipes (always have the modern ones too).

For carrying; mostly between my teeth or in my hat. I have one (the dark, dirty little one) I have had for around 10 years now - have I broken any; YES.
But that one I have cleaned back white twice now (just stick it in the campfire).

Penn Valley always has great prices, many choices, and great delivery; never recieved a broken pipe and all are great smokers.
I love my Brier best but a good clay is wonderful.
As for the post about a Shaped Tin with hinge - 100% period correct, but unless you make it or have a friend; very Expensive! However, back when I was researching 'pipes in history' I also came across one that showed a clay pipe stored in a bamboo tube with cork.

 

[RG96]

yes it surely looks to be a SCOTISH DIRK.??

the handle is way too big to be a dirk. for some reason my first thought was a saw of some kind but that probably wouldn't be so shiny

 

[Mad L]

The handle has a North Plains Dagger look to me, the blade perhaps from a broken/discarded sword...that could explain why no sheath.
At that age, and living with the Natives, he has seen a lot so to construct such a blade would not be so unheard of, and again at his age perhaps he had no need to fashion a sheath.
I would doubt it is a blade he brought from Scotland...but that too not impossible.

 

[Mad L]

Perhaps he used it to chop off the ends of those LONG peace pipes so as not to spread germs..

 

[toot]

Perhaps he used it to chop off the ends of those LONG peace pipes so as not to spread germs..

or the heads of chickens?

 

[RG96]

how do the clay pipes smoke? I've only had cobs or briar, I know the bowls get really hot but is the smoke much hotter? when did wood pipes start getting popular?

 

[Mad L]

Clay pipes smoke Very clean, no wood or cob to burn, no 'break in' period.
Yes, they get hot if you smoke stack it, but that is not how your supposed to smoke a pipe anyway.
In my photo above you will notice the small front one, I have linen thread wrapped around the stem - small pipes do get hotter, where a 6" or longer stem not as bad, also longer stems will smoke cooler.

With Clay you need not worry about 'burn in' with the bowl like briar or cob (I Love briar) and IMO a clay will teach you to smoke properly - smoke stack it and you Will get burned.

With wood; when learning you are supposed to be able to comfortably hold the pipe. If your hand/fingers are burning or if you can not comfortably hold the bowl against your cheek; you are smoking too hot, and risking cracking the wood.
With wood you need to build the 'cake' to get a proper smoke (and protect the bowl), same with cob. But not so with clay. A clay pipe will taste your baccy and Only your baccy. No need for treating it with honey, rum, whiskey, or other flavorings that some do (I use Sea Wynde rum on my Briar and cob pipes).

To clean a Clay pipe: simply hold into an open fire (camp fire, fireplace, or I have even used flame from a gas stove top) - it will burn out pure white like new!
However I have not owned any of those colored clays... dont know about them.

Then there is also those Stone pipes the Native Indians use (often carved as animals)...I would like to try one some time - cant recall all the details about them.

 

[Mad L]

As for Briar history; do an Internet search.
It's an interesting read; I think they came about in early 1900s, a Frenchman if I recall.
Today Briar is your most superior wood but is Not correct for 1700-1800 period.

Ash and Cherry would perhaps pass, but not sure as to when they first appeared in history. I would imagine that 'woody's would have been used whenever a smoker could not get hold of a clay but had some tobacco handy....

 

[tenngun]

Clay smokes real well. The one down side is if you clamp the stem in your teeth. In that case you get a dirt flavor. Should you just clamp the stem in your lips it’s hard to tell clay from meerschaum .
Brier was used by the 1820s and we see some Brie pipes in photos of the late unpleasantness with the north. Vulcanite stems were invented about 1850 and became popular after the war.
However as above it would be the roaring 90s and early twentieth century that brier became the go to.
Wood pipes were seen in the eighteenth century. Washington may not have cut down daddy’s cherry tree but he planted a cherry grove with the plan of raising pipe wood. He couldn’t make a product that could compleat with clay for price.
Meerschaum were seen after 1720 but for the most part even gentlemen smoked clay, often church wardens.
German porcelain pipes were being made as early as meerschaum, and a German immigrant to America could have had one before the revolution, but never became popular in the US and few seen mostly after the 1830s
They are about the best fire/brandy/good book smoke

 

[Mad L]

Clay smokes real well. The one down side is if you clamp the stem in your teeth. In that case you get a dirt flavor. Should you just clamp the stem in your lips it’s hard to tell clay from meerschaum .
Brier was used by the 1820s and we see some Brie pipes in photos of the late unpleasantness with the north. Vulcanite stems were invented about 1850 and became popular after the war.
However as above it would be the roaring 90s and early twentieth century that brier became the go to.
Wood pipes were seen in the eighteenth century. Washington may not have cut down daddy’s cherry tree but he planted a cherry grove with the plan of raising pipe wood. He couldn’t make a product that could compleat with clay for price.
Meerschaum were seen after 1720 but for the most part even gentlemen smoked clay, often church wardens.
German porcelain pipes were being made as early as meerschaum, and a German immigrant to America could have had one before the revolution, but never became popular in the US and few seen mostly after the 1830s
They are about the best fire/brandy/good book smoke

Yes, my bad; my memory just saw "19th"
I just checked a handful of pipe forums and "around 1850" seems to be the consensus for Briar.

Here is one short write that pretty much sums up all:

https://www.romagnolopipe.it/briar-pipes-history/

 

[RG96]

thanks that's really interesting. but now I'm gonna have to get another pipe, oh darn

 

[tenngun]

Pipes is like guns, one is too many a thousand is not enough

 

[Loyalist Dave]

To clean a Clay pipe: simply hold into an open fire (camp fire, fireplace, or I have even used flame from a gas stove top) - it will burn out pure white like new!

Yes to cure a clay pipe that has absorbed too much juice from the tobacco, you indeed simply lay it on hardwood coals. USE TONGS to remove it after a few minutes and lay it aside where it may cool as a clay pipe even when it isn't glowing with heat may still be hot enough to take skin off you. Besides the heat from the fire will likely require the use of tongs to get close to the coals, anyway.

BEWARE that you do this to a pipe that is a full day from being last smoked. IF you smoke the pipe, then decide it's time to cure and lay it in the fire, moisture from the tobacco will likely still be in the ceramic of the bowl, and when it turns to steam the bowl will burst.

LD

 

[toot]

Penn Valley Pipes
https://shop.pipeshoppe.com/
My go-to for Clay pipes, never got a bad one from them and many to choose from! From time to time they even have old time Corncob pipes (always have the modern ones too).

For carrying; mostly between my teeth or in my hat. I have one (the dark, dirty little one) I have had for around 10 years now - have I broken any; YES.
But that one I have cleaned back white twice now (just stick it in the campfire).

Penn Valley always has great prices, many choices, and great delivery; never recieved a broken pipe and all are great smokers.
I love my Brier best but a good clay is wonderful.
As for the post about a Shaped Tin with hinge - 100% period correct, but unless you make it or have a friend; very Expensive! However, back when I was researching 'pipes in history' I also came across one that showed a clay pipe stored in a bamboo tube with cork.

my grand father used to wrap seweing thread around the end of his clay pipe to get a purchase on it to keep it from turning on his gum's he had no teeth, so this process made it possible to smoke it with out holding on to it. he would some time substitute a rubber band in place of the thread. thought you guys would enjoy this little bit of family history?