Pillow Ticking "Shot Cups"

[BrownBear]

I've yammered enough about testing these things, it's past time to pass along how I do it. I finally got around to taking a few pics, so here goes.

HC/PC ALERT!!!! I make no claims that this has any basis in history, and don't really care to hear about it. It's pure practical problem solving with hand tools and common materials. Good enough for this hunter.

This is the business end of my "seater." I drilled a 5/16" hole through a 1" dowel, then rasped the end down into a tube that fits in the bore of my 12 gauge with enough room for the patch. Overall length is roughly 3", but the tube is the right length to seat the patch all they way down in one motion and stop so the top is flush with the muzzle.

This is the "mouth" of the seater. I hogged it out to form a funnel so it was easier pouring from my measure.

I stopped half way into seating it for the sake of the photo. Just thumb in a base wad (lubed .125" nitro card in my case), center the patch and use the starter shove it down and form the cup.

Pour in the shot. That's 1 3/8" of #6 shot, BTW. I'd need a longer tube for more, but probably a bigger patch too. I never shoot larger charges, so this is good enough for me. The patch is 3" diameter, BTW.

Withdraw the tube and leave the shot behind. Then thumb on an overshot card, and shove the works down onto the powder. It seats real easy. Note that the patch wasn't quite centered. Doesn't seem to matter. I can talk more about lubing the patches if anyone wants, but suffice to say I've got more than I need in terms of greasy hands. It's enough lube that I sure don't have any problems with hard fouling!

Here's my whole setup. Basically all I've done is add a hollow starter to what I normally carry. And a bag of patches, of course. I'm still using a historically correct ziploc bag for those till I come up with a better idea. BTW- Consider the size of my shot flask in relation to the 3" patch. That little sucker still holds over a pound of shot, plenty for 10+ loads.

A guy with a lathe could turn out one of these hollow starters in about 2 minutes, but it took me a couple of hours with rasps and sandpaper.

I'm guessing this might be a terrific way to use "shot cups" in guns with modern chokes, BTW.

 

[bowkill]

i will give that a try for sure... :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Truth time?

I never would have bothered with wood if I had a scrap of 1/2" rigid copper pipe laying around. Just clamp it into my tubing flare tool, and the funnel would have been a done deal.

But wood sure goes better with the rest of my kit, in any case! :rotf:

 

[rabjr]

I always wondered what a thin piece of greased leather would do as far as holding the shot together longer, your doing basically the same thing except with pillow ticking. Cool! :thumbsup:

 

[Twice boom]

Have you tested the load on paper?

Twice.

 

[Skychief]

Have you tested the load on paper?

Twice.

+1.

And don't give us the old "once the weather clears" stuff BrownBear! :haha:

Thanks a lot for posting the pics. I will definately give your idea a whirl....once the weather clears! :rotf:

Skychief.

 

[BrownBear]

Have you tested the load on paper?

Twice.

Yeah, I've talked about it before, probably in the thread about load development. I get roughly one jump in choke over cylinger, maybe even a little better than IC. But I'm not going to count holes to find out. I like what I see and a few % points are best left to the bean counters of the world.

What's important to me is the nice, smooth edge of the patterns and no clumping in the middle. Just real even distribution, at least with #7 1/2, #6 and #4 magnum shot. I really prefer that kind of pattern for game because I use the edges so much of the time to fringe rabbits. And the even distribution without clumping really translates into better wing shooting for me.

I make no claims as a long-range duck shooter, and frankly I'm not interested in the long stuff. I'm confident that I can reach between 30 and 35 for ducks and ptarmigan, and that's plenty. In fact, if I use my preferred 7 1/2 shot for ptarmigan I'm likely to drop the load back to 1 1/8 oz or 1 oz to cut pattern density. No sense hitting them with more shot than they need. I've been wing shooting ptarmigan for 35 years with 410's and 28's so their ballistic needs are pretty familiar ground. Heck, early in the season I might even drop to 3/4 oz of shot.

 

[Grizzled Roberts]

Great looking set up! Dont let anyone tell you otherwise! Got more tinkering to do.
:thumbsup:

 

[Twice boom]

Sorry to say this bean counter has no way of knowing what my gun is doing at different distances with out knowing %’s.

Do you use a cushion wad under the cloth patch. From the looks of the amount of grease you are using you might not use one and why I ask..

Too bad you have nothing on paper to show us at different distances .It would be helpful.

 

[BrownBear]

Yeah, I describe the base wad there under the third photo.

As for bean counting and %, I've counted so many thousands of patterns over the years, I can size up the patterns pretty close without counting. Certainly within the 10% spread traditionally used in jumping from one to the next.

Doesn't matter to me, as I said. I'm getting what I want for the conditions and game I shoot, and I'll leave the counting to folks who still enjoy it.

 

[Congress Own Regiment]

Thanks BrownBear ,
Your funnel that holds just the right amount of shot. Will help load my paper cups and my black powder shot shells. The funnel and patch cup should work very well on tight choked scatter guns as well. i am going out to turn a few funnel after I am done here tonight.

 

[BrownBear]

... holds just the right amount of shot....

That inspired me to get out the caliper and be more specific. Can't be 100% specific because of the hogging for the funnel, but the hole is 5/16" and 3.04" long, holding 1 3/8 oz of #6 shot.

While I'm dinking with the dialy-jawed-thing (as my granddaughter calls it) OD on the tube is .580" and length to where it stops in the shotgun barrel is right around 1.90". A good round # of 2" would let a guy go up to 1 1/2 oz, I bet.

Like I said, if I had any 1/2" rigid copper pipe around I'd have used that. ID would have been bigger, so it probably could have been a little shorter, especially with a sharp flare.

 

[Congress Own Regiment]

i think that i will make it long in the tube and hopper area and cut down as needed to push cup deep as desired. to match shot load and then cut down hopper funnel flange end at the line the measured shot load fills to then sand it to s smooth contort. yes copper tub would work as well. Could make a right nice looking charging funnel out of polished horn.
I had been using paper x-ed across the muzzle and a dowel starter to push in but some time paper cup side would fold in and not protect barrel and shot. loading the cup before setting it at bottom of barrel could be the trick to stop this problem. I don't find much paper wasp nest around my area and running out of old stock from VT. and PA. Thinking of using corn meal packed over powder as cushion wading. Have not tested it with paper cup as of yet. But will be testing it soon.

 

[Twice boom]

Yeah, I describe the base wad there under the third photo.

As for bean counting and %, I've counted so many thousands of patterns over the years, I can size up the patterns pretty close without counting. Certainly within the 10% spread traditionally used in jumping from one to the next.

Doesn't matter to me, as I said. I'm getting what I want for the conditions and game I shoot, and I'll leave the counting to folks who still enjoy it.

Looks like a good set up for shoving patches and shot cups down the barrel. But Other than that I am not sure with out some kind of proof the cloth in use is stiff enough to have much affect on the pattern. I am of the opinion the shot will leave the barrel before the shot patch will. I also believe the force of the base wad by the ignited powder will have the tendency to turn the patch inside out. But I do take your word, that the results you are getting are good enough for you.
Thanks.
Twice

 

[roundball]

As for bean counting and %, I've counted so many thousands of patterns over the years, I can size up the patterns pretty close without counting. Certainly within the 10% spread traditionally used in jumping from one to the next.
Doesn't matter to me, as I said. I'm getting what I want for the conditions and game I shoot, and I'll leave the counting to folks who still enjoy it.

Ingenius setup you've made there BrownBear...

Same here on the pattern testing...I fold sheets of flip chart (24"x30") paper in half twice so the fold lines make visible quadrants when its hanging on the pattern board...1" aim point sticker in the middle, take the shot, walk up and stop a few feet from the paper, and can see at a glance what the pattern is doing...

 

[BrownBear]

Try some other cloth and let us know how it works out. I know I plan to.

As for the shot outrunning the wad? Nah. I've seen too many high speed stills and videos of various shot loads and wads to even consider it. Been there, done that, got the buckle and the t-shirt, and don't need to ride that horse again.

 

[BrownBear]

Same here on the pattern testing...I fold sheets of flip chart (24"x30") paper in half twice so the fold lines make visible quadrants when its hanging on the pattern board...1" aim point sticker in the middle, take the shot, walk up and stop a few feet from the paper, and can see at a glance what the pattern is doing...

I miss my old pattern "paper" from the testing days. It was a 4'x4' sheet of plate steel, spray painted white. Any hit would be a gray smudge in the middle of a chip, and actually easier to see than holes. Just keep a can of cheap white spray paint handy and hit the "board" with another coat before your next shot.

Had a pro-made plastic overlay for pattern measure including quadrants, but the company wanted that back at the end of testing two years later. Slick. The steel was mine, but I long since cut it up for something or other.

 

[JackAubrey]

I love it ! I'm going to make one, probably out of copper tubing since I don't have a lot of tools hank you so much for this thread! Best regards, JA! T

 

[rabjr]

I been lookin over that "seater" and I think I'm gonna steal your idea. :wink: Thats pretty slick Big Bear! :thumbsup:

 

[August West]

That is slick as snot on a doorknob, I am going to build me one for sure but probably be lazy and use copper. Chris