Pietta Loading Data

[PaulF70]

So I actually RTFM here today: http://www.pietta.us/pdf/Manuale_Avancarica_ENG.pdf

I am very surprised to see Pietta claiming 12gr FFFg as max load for their .36 cal revolvers, 15 for .44s, and 60gr FF for their shotguns.

We all know those numbers are bunk.

I got my loading data from my Lyman's manual and experiences on the net. I use 80gr powder & shot in my Pedersoli shotgun (I have no Pietta shotgun but actual limits must be similar). I use up to 30 gr in my .36 cal revolvers (1858). Have no .44s.

Apparently this is a legal CYA but it's disappointing to see them doing this.

 

[Bad Karma]

Those are also decent loads for target shooters. Except that shotgun load. That’s pretty light. It may surprise Pietta to learn that American shooters like to load them to the maximum.

 

[TDM]

I don’t recall the numbers being that low from the old manuals for my Piettas. If I remember correctly they use to say 22 gr max for the .36 and 30 gr for the .44s.

Regardless, my common loads for steel frames are 20 in a .36 and 30 in a .44

 

[PaulF70]

I am pretty sure the paper manuals say the same. But that's the current online manual.

The 1858 Remington .36 can handle 25 grains for sure, probably 30 with no harm.

 

[Bad Karma]

I am pretty sure the paper manuals say the same. But that's the current online manual.

The 1858 Remington .36 can handle 25 grains for sure, probably 30 with no harm.

Considering its built on the same frame as the 44 I would feel comfortable stuffing the chambers plumb full of Swiss 4f and shooting it.

 

[PaulF70]

So would I. I don't have any 4F but I'm pretty sure it's safe to stuff the cylinders with as much as they can take.

Pressures are still low. The guns are made of very hard steel. Not gonna blow up.

 

[Jim in Wisconsin]

The manual with my new Uberti Rem. 36 says 25 max with a round ball and 15 max with a conical.
With the amount of "meat" around the chambers I wouldn't worry at all about how much powder I used. If you can get the ball flush so the cylinder can turn, shoot it.

 

[PaulF70]

I agree with all that. But their online manual as you can see above says something quite different.

It's just a little disappointing.. it's like they're not treating what they make as real guns.

But we can safely ignore it.

 

[Bunk]

Unfortunately it takes a lot of shooting (isn't that a shame) but the best load for your gun is the load that shoots most accurately. How FAST id goes is not as important IMHO as WHERE it goes..
And the way is start light and go up half grain at a time until you find the best combination of powder, filler or lube wad,, (optional) and ball.
Weigh the charge until you hit the sweet spot and measure the volume that occupies.
Respectfully
Bunk

 

[earlwb]

well I was looking at the ballistics than someone had done with the cap and ball revolvers. the Colt Walker could be loaded with up to 60 grains of BP maximum. But the muzzle velocity went down. The Walker seemed to perform best at maybe 45 grains, 50grains offered a small increase and 60 grains went down in velocity. so obviously some of the powder charge was being blown out before it could increase velocity. the same for the other calibers too. Maximum velocity acheived was not with a full cylinder maxed out. Thus loading for best performance or accuracy pays off. Not maximum fill up the cylinder loads.

 

[PaulF70]

Unfortunately it takes a lot of shooting (isn't that a shame) but the best load for your gun is the load that shoots most accurately. How FAST id goes is not as important IMHO as WHERE it goes..
And the way is start light and go up half grain at a time until you find the best combination of powder, filler or lube wad,, (optional) and ball.
Weigh the charge until you hit the sweet spot and measure the volume that occupies.
Respectfully
Bunk

This doesn't have anything to do with the point of my post. Of course working up a load for accuracy is a thing. That is not related to the Pietta manual's instruction that 12 grains of powder is the MAXIMUM load for a .36 1858 Remington. The maximum load metric is formulated based on one factor - the max load that is *safe* for the gun. IOW, the load over which more-might-make-er-blow-up.

And, though power without accuracy is largely moot, 12 grains of powder isn't going to stop much in all likelihood.

I was just reading the report of a fellow who uses his .44 1858 to shoot 200 lb wild boars. They drop on the stop, mostly. He's not abiding by Pietta's "maximum load" as given in this online manual.

The point of my post was that publishing a "maximum load" that is actually far, far below what the weapon can actually handle - what even the originals could with weaker steel - does a disservice to them, and to the intelligence of their owners.

 

[nick_1]

accuracy is always more important than power.....

 

[Desperate Lee]

I'm old school. I am former Marine. Can't say ex because we are not ex until pushing up flowers, but my point is I had a rifle and pistol in my hands since I could walk. My daddy, God rest his soul, was another former Marine. Taught me and my brother to shoot and respect weapons at an early age. Take the most powerful weapon in your arenal, if you cant hit diddly with it, what good is it. Muzzle loaders, the load that is most accurate for you is your best and max load, be it 20 grns or 40 grns in a pistola or 50 grns to 100 grns in a rifle, your best accurate load is your max load. You can scream velocity and power factors all day, but if you miss your target what damn good is it. The OP is talking about Pietta's published low loads. That my friend is lawyer up talk. As my daddy use to say CYOA ( COVER YOUR OWN ASS ). I have yet to see, and brother I am pusher 71 years, someone blow up a revolver with too much powder, unless stupid put SMOKELESS in it. So start low, work up, and at some point accuracy will drop off, back up to previous load and be happy. You have made it my brother. Ok so much for my Sunday morning rambling. Stay safe, stay dry and warm, and SEMPER FI.
DL

 

[shorthair]

Hunting partner in his ROA used to fill the chambers with pyrodex p the compress top it off a couple more times then seat a rb with a little lube before shooting, he did this for years with no issues I even saw him take a coyote at about 50 yds with this load.

 

[Desperate Lee]

Hunting partner in his ROA used to fill the chambers with pyrodex p the compress top it off a couple more times then seat a rb with a little lube before shooting, he did this for years with no issues I even saw him take a coyote at about 50 yds with this load.

I for one totally believe it. I have several Rugers. One being a New Model Blackhawk. They are some tough sob's. I passed on a stainless ROA in a pawn shop 20 something years ago. One of those da moments. Haven't found another one i could afford, without going for the divorce. Dont get me wrong, I have a great little woman, but I dont push my luck. Right BadKarma? We discussed this before.
Semper Fi
 DL

 

[Stantheman86]

Those max numbers aren't far off of the specified Ordnance charges for nitrate paper cartridges and heavy conicals.

The .36 cartridges went as low as 12 gr and the .44 Johnston & Dow was I think 17 grains . The loads were intended to push the conicals and keep the gun cleaner for prolonged firing. It was a "happy medium", I'm sure a lot of testing went into those loads and more powder probably didn't have enough of an increase in power to justify more fouling

Plus yes, they are also "lawyer loads"

I use a 10 gr charge of 3f in .36 Navies for target shooting and it's got enough pop for 50 yard bullseye shooting but I'd probably want to go with 20 if I was actually intending on hurting something

Substitute "max" load for "optimal target plinking load" and those charges work fine

Pietta may also be trying to avoid people being finicky about fouled up guns

 

[Stantheman86]

I don’t recall the numbers being that low from the old manuals for my Piettas. If I remember correctly they use to say 22 gr max for the .36 and 30 gr for the .44s.

Regardless, my common loads for steel frames are 20 in a .36 and 30 in a .44

30 gr of 3f in my steel frame .44's feels about perfect

 

[Bad Karma]

accuracy is always more important than power.....

Until it isn’t…

I for one totally believe it. I have several Rugers. One being a New Model Blackhawk. They are some tough sob's. I passed on a stainless ROA in a pawn shop 20 something years ago. One of those da moments. Haven't found another one i could afford, without going for the divorce. Dont get me wrong, I have a great little woman, but I dont push my luck. Right BadKarma? We discussed this before.
Semper Fi
 DL

Yeah but we married WAY up!! No way I take a chance on screwing that up!

 

[Horse]

I think its all about liability. You sorta cant blame a company for that with all the "Hey man watch this" on boob-tube, then hey, call my lawyer! But they can get a bit silly sometimes .Comon sense makes sense imo.

 

[Johnny Tremain]

I just saw a video about this.
I only have a 44 so thats the dat I use, but the curve should be about the same just less powder.
The guy did 25,30,35,40gr tests.
The 25 was too little. The 30gr was about right. The 35gr only gave about a 5% fps boost,
and the 40gr loads only changed the fps by 2-3. Using holy black.
I dont see going over 30gr the extra few fps are not worth the powder burnt.