Pietta 1851 Navy cylinder does not rotate when cocking?

Discussion in 'Handguns' started by railshot, Mar 4, 2019.

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  1. Mar 4, 2019 #1

    railshot

    railshot

    railshot

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    I decided to play with my .44 handguns today a bit, none have been fired and all purchased within the past 5 months.

    Both of my brass frames seem to function fine, but my steel frame Navy will not rotate the cylinder when cocking 100% of the time.

    It will rotate occasionally, but I would be a dead man by the time it finally did if I really needed it.

    Having "lifetime" warranty does not mean much if it is limited by the functionality of your handgun now does it? Heheh...

    I purchased this one particularly because it was a steel frame and it should be more durable in the long run, but heck, I have not shot it once yet.

    Never fired, never dry fired, etc. ... Sat in my display cabinet from day 1.
    I would have shot them all today if it were not for this.
    It really put a damper on my day.

    My confidence level is quite low now as to the quality of Pietta handguns sadly.

    Anyone else experience this before?
     
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  2. Mar 4, 2019 #2

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    If the Pietta 1851 came from Traditions [in a Traditions box], it would have a 1 year warranty.
    It could be sent to them and they would fix it.
    If it came from somewhere else, then you could speak to them about helping you with it if they have a gun smith or where to send it.
    If it came from a big box store, I looked up a thread that said that EMF is the primary distributor in the US.

    "Call them EMF is the primary distributor for Pietta in the US. Call them. Becky can get you to the repair/custom shop.
    1-800-430-1310...they are in Santa Ana, Ca. Good folks to deal with."

    If EMF can't help you fix it by giving you advice, then email Pietta and they may send you the parts needed to fix it.--->>> E-Mail : info@pietta.it
    They've sent necessary parts to other people who have had troubles with newer revolvers.
    If you know the distributor who sold you the gun, then they should be able to direct you to who can fix it.

    The revolver probably should have been checked for function when it was first received.
    Hopefully it's not anything serious.
    These problems can occur with any brand of C&B revolver and are not limited to Pietta.
     
  3. Mar 4, 2019 #3

    railshot

    railshot

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    Thanks arcticap for the input,
    I purchased this one from a local gunsmith who had it in his display case for quite some time, but I did have the foresight to register it with Traditions as soon as I purchased it.
    I will be calling them first thing Monday morning, but I just have to say I am a little leary of the quality now that this has happened.

    It worked fine when I first purchased it, and now today it quit revolving during cocking.... of course, it did not happen until I wanted to actually fire it.... Might be a good thing I guess.......
     
  4. Mar 4, 2019 #4

    hawkeye2

    hawkeye2

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    It could be as simple as a broken hand spring which is quite common. Point it straight down and cock it, if the cylinder revolves it's the spring. You can make a replacement spring from a piece of a bobby pin. Try googling the repair and you should find some photos.
     
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  5. Mar 4, 2019 #5

    PluggedNickel

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    You don't mention if the revolver does this uncapped/unloaded, or only when capped? Most common cause in a capped revolver is part of a fired cap falling into hammer slot in the frame and jamming the works up. if the revolver rotates/indexes correctly, and the bolt locks at each chamber with the revolver uncapped, but won't when capped, the caps/nipples are most probably at fault.
    A broken hand spring is a pretty common event as well.

    If you are new to shooting black powder percussion revolvers ,here is a link that will tell you more than you want to know about nipples and caps. Turns out, caps aren't just "caps, is caps!" One manufacturers revolver might like a size #10 cap, another might prefer #11, and some factory nipples aren't all that great either. The CAD drawings of the different types of nipples and manufacturing differences is great in this article. It has great CAD's of the after market nipples compared to factory ones as well. Turns out all #10 caps or #11 caps are not even the same dimension from one manufacturer to another either.
    Some of the Italian factory nipples are not consistent in size/length, although from reading this forum, I believe they have gotten better than they used to be. It is possible for one or two nipples to not (using the same size/brand percussion cap of course), seat to full depth, so that the cap can drag as you are trying to cock the hammer and rotate to the next chamber. You can check this easily, with the revolver unloaded, and just capped, shooting dry fire so to speak, just busting caps with each shot. Inexpensive way to try and figure it out. Safer too. If you find the nipples are at fault, I would suggest, Hotshot, TRESO or SlixShot nipples as a replacement. I have SlixShot nipples and like them very much.

    http://www.theopenrange.net/forum/index.php?topic=9093.0

    If the nipple/caps aren't the trouble, I would check to insure that the bolt is engaging the cylinder notch at each chamber location, before cocking to the next chamber. Each time you cock to full cock check that the cylinder is indeed locked by the bolt. Also, if you are cocking the hammer, and then lowering the hammer by hand, instead of pulling the trigger and letting it fire as normal, I have heard this can cause the cylinder not to index properly, especially if you cock to half cock, and then go to full cock from there. You may well have already tried all of my suggestions already, but, check to make sure the wedge is tight, as well.

    I've only been on the this forum since Feb of last year, and we are about the same age. I'll be 66 on April 6. I've been shooting my whole life, but really only recently got into black powder shooting seriously. I've had the guns for about 10 years, just to the fever having retired now.

    I see you posted this rather late, and that is why you haven't received many replies yet. The others will join in and have some excellent advise/help come morning.
    Articap's advise is great as well. Since the revolver is new, still under warranty, you will get to the bottom of it for sure. I would give them a call as he suggested.
     
  6. Mar 4, 2019 #6

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    It's unfortunate but at least you're covered.
    We're having a storm in CT right now so call late in the morning as there may be delays.
    Good luck.
     
  7. Mar 4, 2019 #7

    PluggedNickel

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    Dang, you posted just before me and beat me to the hand spring thought! Good on you! Great minds think alike.
     
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  8. Mar 4, 2019 #8

    PluggedNickel

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    Good luck. Let us know what you find out for sure! Since I have a Pietta 1851 Navy that functions as it should. If I ever have the same trouble with it your experience may be of help. Here is a picture of my Pietta 1851.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  9. Mar 4, 2019 #9

    railshot

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    BINGO! She rotates every time when pointed down....!!!!!
    Heheh, one of the reasons I joined this forum for sure is you guys and gals have "been there, done that, and seen that".

    Simple mechanics that probably would have taken me a day or two to discover.... Thanks!

    I think I will still give Traditions a hard time (as they have not heard from me for over 2 months with a complaint) on Monday.
    Thanks again hawkeye2, sincerely!
     
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  10. Mar 4, 2019 #10

    railshot

    railshot

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    PluggedNickle, that was a very informative post.
    Thanks for that!
    I have not even had a chance to put a cap on this one, but for those down the road, it is great info!
     
  11. Mar 4, 2019 #11

    PluggedNickel

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    Your welcome. That article on the caps and nipple was a real eye opener for me. I had no idea that two #10 caps from different makers would not be even close to the same dimensions prior to reading that article. Love the SlixShot nipples on my Walker! And they look cool too being SS.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  12. Mar 4, 2019 #12

    railshot

    railshot

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    PluggeNickel, now your are just making me jealous..... heheh.
    Nice Walker!
    Me thinks me needs one now.

    I have noticed your avatar previously, and I think I am going to have to talk to my mom about loaning me a picture she has of me probably taken right around the same time yours was.
    Paladin, Gunsmoke, Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers, Zorro, and oh so many others influenced where I am at today.....
    Heheh, good stuff!
     
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  13. Mar 4, 2019 #13

    drobs

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    Friend of mine received a Pietta 1851 Navy from the last Cabela's sale that also came with a broken trigger bolt spring. I also bought my Pietta 1851 Navy during that sale (June or July 2018). Since I work overseas, and really wanted to shoot this gun on my last vacation, and as a preventative measure I ordered a Wolff - EMF 32297 wire bolt spring from Wolff springs.

    I do a little fluff and buff on all my Pietta Colt revolvers using the following treatises as a reference point:
    http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_One.pdf
    http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/Tuning_the_Pietta_Part_Two.pdf

    The only thing I mostly do for a new, or new to me Pietta, is fit the bolt to the locking notches on the cylinder. I do this by swiping the bolt on some 600 grit black wet/dry sandpaper. Testing fit of the bolt head in each cylinder notch for tightness.

    FYI - When I completely disassembled my 1851 Navy, the screw that holds the bolt / trigger spring in there, was just about impossible to get out. I found I needed to mount the frame in a padded bench vice and put significant pressure on the screwdriver to get that to loosen. I munged the heck of the head getting that thing out!

    I figure whoever installed that screw at the factory is probably responsible for this wave of broken trigger bolt springs. My factory spring was fine but I replaced it with the Wolff wire spring.

    I did note that the spring on the hand was installed a little bit cockeyed with a sharp corner sticking out. I sanded that corner down. Everything else looked good to go.

    Tip - I put a dab or TC Bore butter on the arbor and find that significantly helps the function of the gun.

    Here's a crappy group of mine from initially shooting the gun. I blame the flyers on myself. This was shot 2 hands standing at 21ft with 20gr Graff's FFFg, Hornady .375 diameter round ball, and lube over ball. Remington #10 Caps.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2019
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  14. Mar 4, 2019 #14

    Juice Jaws

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    Same thing happen to my 62 police, the spring on the pawl/hand was broken, I order the part from Dixie Gun Works, put the new part in and was shooting in about a week and half. Sending your firearm to the factory you will be luckily to get it back in 3 or 4 months.
     
  15. Mar 4, 2019 #15

    railshot

    railshot

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    Good post drobs, I have saved both of those files and will be using them to tune up all 3 for sure.

    Juice Jaws, I could just fix it myself, but I have this thing about making manufacturers aware of their flaws, and in turn doing something about them.
    More than likely I will send it back to Traditions to be corrected or replaced.....

    -5 degrees out anyway today, so not going anywhere for a while to shoot.
    Thanks everyone for the input on this.
     
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  16. Mar 4, 2019 #16

    arcticap

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    I would be very interested in hearing if it takes 3 - 4 months to have that revolver returned to you from the time that Traditions receives it.
    Railshot, if you can, please bring it back up on this thread about how long it takes for your warranty repair.
    The notification will help me to not miss it being posted on this thread.
    Buyers want to know all about the good, the bad and the ugly when it involves warranties & customer service! ;)
     
  17. Mar 4, 2019 #17

    Juice Jaws

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    I am all for getting my money's worth and warranties, but the part is only 5 or 6 bucks, order by phone or on line and in a week you will be shooting again. Its going to take longer than that to ship the pistol back to the company. But you are right arcticap I also would like to know how long it will take the company to send it back.
     
  18. Mar 4, 2019 #18

    arcticap

    arcticap

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    Traditions might offer to send a part for free, but then if he boogers up screws they will not be replaced by them for free either.
    At least if they do the work, then the owner continues to be fully covered for whatever else may need replacing and the gun should continue to look brand new.
    If the gun comes back with boogered screws, then he can complain and maybe get new screws sent out right away.
     
  19. Mar 4, 2019 #19

    railshot

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    Depending on what Traditions tells me tomorrow as to what direction they want to take, I will update this as it happens.
    I too am curious to see just how long the turn-around time is for something like this.

    When my Crockett came to me with extremely poorly drilled holes that left no option to fix them other than plugging and redrilling the holes, it only took 5 business days for me to send it to them, have them inspect it, and send me a new stock.... not all that bad really.
    And I have to say, my Crockett is still my favorite "assembly" done to date.
     
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  20. Mar 4, 2019 #20

    FishDFly

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    I have had excellent turnaround time with Taylor's.

    I talked with the gunsmith and told him my problem and asked how long to repair the pistol. He said he would repair it the day it was received and it would go out the next day. He did.
     

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