Period leather dye

[SgtErv]

Hi all,

I’ve made a pretty rocking bayonet scabbard and leather shoulder carriage for a Continental impression.

This past year I’ve been trying to be as period correct as I can, so this brings me to a question...How can I turn this thing a deep, dark brown?

Vinegaroon that’s been setting up for a couple days is giving me a blue. I’ll wait longer, but I suspect it’ll blacken it rather than browning.

Any tips on concocting some brown dye that would have been used in the late 18th century?

Thank you in advance. I suspect walnuts will he in some of your answers haha

 

[Artificer]

Well, if you want a period deep/dark brown dye, then walnut would have been the way to go, especially for someone on the frontier.

However, I'm not so sure that would someone on the frontier would have done that? If they were going to dye it, then vinegaroon was the common dye and of course as you know, that gives a charcoal to black color.

Though I don't have much original documentation to back this up, I strongly suspect if they did not want to dye it with vinegaroon, they left it the color it came out of the tanning vat. This would have been what was later generically called a "russet" color and would have come out a light tan to no more than a light brown.

If you wind up using a modern dye for a deep/dark brown, then I would recommend Fiebing's Medium Brown Dye and NOT their Dark Brown dye. With the Medium Brown, you can "build up" the color to match on each item and get it pretty much as dark as you like with more coats. The Medium Brown also has a very pleasing hint of red in it.

The Dark Brown may be too dark for you. OR you could use the Dark Brown and thin it 1:1 with denatured alcohol and build up the color as you like. This dye has NO red hint in it, though.

Gus

 

[BrownBear]

Another issue to watch for with Fiebing's or any other modern dye is unintentional build-up of dye during application as you strive to get an even color. You keep going back and hitting the light spots, and pretty soon the piece is lots darker than you intended.

I'm even more conservative than Gus, in that I start with Fiebing's light brown and cut that 50% with their reducer, adding several "coats" until I hit the tone I want.

But there's a more important first step. Prior to dying use a spray bottle (I steal my wife's plant spritzer) to thoroughly and evenly dampen the leather. No such thing as "too wet" in my experience, so don't be afraid to wet it down good. This helps spread and even the dye as you apply it.

Call it my ham handed approach to life, but I've never had a whole lot of luck getting an even dye application using a brush, rag or dauber. It was a revelation to me to try an air brush. You don't have to buy a full fledged air brush and compressor to do it, though. Get yourself one of these from a leather supplier like Tandy, or even a decent hardware store. I get a whole lot of projects out of a single air canister, and replacements are cheap.

 

[Artificer]

That was a good and important tip about wetting the leather down before dyeing. :thumbsup:

"Call it my ham handed approach to life, but I've never had a whole lot of luck getting an even dye application using a brush, rag or dauber."

Back in the mid 1970's one of the owners of the Tandy Store in Fredericksburg, VA showed me about wrapping many layers of cheesecloth around a small wood block. He would put the bottle of dye to the cheesecloth and then very lightly rub the block on the leather. However, it only hit the high spots of the leather and did not provide an even color.

I use a wad of paper towels to apply dye to the leather, but that air cylinder thing is intriguing.

OK, as one whose Paternal Grandparents kept about a dozen Black Walnut trees on their property to gather/harvest/pick and sell the nutmeat; here is what I have found to make dye from the hulls.

If you only handle green hulls, then you crush and pull the hulls off and you can boil them to make a light/medium brown dye. If you want a darker dye, let the hulls ROT outside until they are black. If there are hulls on the ground that are already rotted black, then those are great to use after you pull them off the nuts. MAKE SURE you wear some kind of rubber dishwashing gloves when handling them because the rotted hulls will STAIN YOUR HANDS FOR DAYS.

I am not sure if adding Vinegar also acts like a mordant or if it just keeps the liquor from molding?

Here are a couple of good links on making the dye:
http://practicalprimitive.com/skillofthemonth/blackwalnutdye.html

and
http://basketmakers.com/topics/tutorials/walnutdye.htm

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

I certainly should have mentioned - my apologies: The bayonet scabbard and carriage is for a Continental impression that while raised on the frontier, was supplied by the Public Store at Williamsburg and then later resupplied by the Continental Clothier General. (The 13th Virginia, redesignated as rhe 9th in September 1778). The unit was posted to Fort Pitt in mid-1778. I’ve got documentation that it continued to receive its quota of clothing and supplies, even a shipping manifest for the garrison as a whole.

I had been using a black leather scabbard with a hemp strap, but the thing bounces around so much it is impractical. It is probably more correct, but for safety sake I made a leather one.

Walnuts or vinegaroon it is. I could probably mix some Fieblings to give the same brown as a walnut bath. I agree in the dark brown not being a great choice - it’s got a lot of red in it. I do have Feiblings walnut.

Interesting point on wetting the leather first. I totally agree. This piece taught me a lot, namely that you must wet it before doing anything, especially cutting it. The first parts I cut with it still dry, and I’m still trimming uneven edges haha. It turned out pretty well overall!

 

[SgtErv]

Posted mine before reading yours, Gus. Good stuff! Pretty much answers my curiosity. There is a walnut tree down the street that has a bunch of walnuts lying under it rotting. Perfect. I don’t think the neighbors would care to get them removed

 

[Artificer]

Did the bayonet slings and scabbards come from Williamsburg in dark brown color? Would have thought it much more likely they would have used vinegaroon to dye the leather.

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

The only existing ones I’ve found don’t have an exact provenance. About half of them are brown and the other half are black

I consulted the 18th Century Material Culture Resource Center. My cartridge box is a dark brown as well. Figured it would make since to have them match since they’re issue items

It could very well be that they came that way and weren’t dyed at all ie bark tanning?

 

[tenngun]

I never researched this my self but I have made bark tan and it’s pretty brown, can be very dark. Was it waxed in the old days? When I’ve made jack ware I use veggie tan that’s light brown but when waxed it gets very dark brown. I wonder that waxing the already dark bark tan might produce near black :idunno:

 

[George]

It could very well be that they came that way and weren’t dyed at all ie bark tanning?

Johann David Schöpf was chief surgeon of the Ansbach regiment of the Hessian troops in America during the AWI 1777-1784. Once the war ended he traveled through the country making observations of the people, the culture and about the botany and zoology of the areas he covered. his journal,"Travels in the Confederation, 1783-1784".

In discussing leather tanning as done by local farmers, he said:

"For tanning he prefers especially the bark of the chestnut-oak, because it gives the leather a higher and clearer color than the bark of other oaks. Besides, this bark is distinguished for a particularly pleasant odor, which it imparts to the water. The bark of the black-oak makes good leather also, but gives it an ugly dark color."

I think it's fair to assume he meant the leather was used with the color it had when it came from the vat.

Spence

 

[SgtErv]

This makes sense, as the color is also uniform throughout. Although a soaking in a dye bath would achieve that, it’s brown inside the cracks, too

 

[Artificer]

This makes sense, as the color is also uniform throughout. Although a soaking in a dye bath would achieve that, it’s brown inside the cracks, too

If the leather is brown inside the cracks, then the leather was "colored" in the tanning vat. In the period, they only applied dye to the leather that faced the outside and left the inside whatever color the leather came. This allowed them to oil the inside of the leather as needed for conditioning.

OK, British Ordnance supplied a cartridge box (what we would call a belly box), a waist belt w/buckle, a bayonet, bayonet frog and scabbard along with each musket. The leather was "blackened" and most probably with vinegaroon. These items would have come with the muskets when received by the Colonies, even if they were surplus sold to the colonies, though the leather items may have been in well used to downright poor or even unserviceable condition.

Note: British "Regular" Regimental Colonels could store most of those things except the bayonet and scabbard and supply at the Colonel's own expense Cartridge Pouches (what we might call an over the shoulder Cartridge Box) with Buff slings, buff waist belts, shoulder carriages for the bayonet with buff belt - all in an effort to make their Regiment/s more "fancy" or Military looking. When they turned their muskets in for replacements, though, the Colonels had to turn the rest of the "plain/blackened" leather goods in with them or British Ordnance would have charged the Colonels for those items. This made the "plain/blackened" leather items available for issue to Regulars in case of emergency or war and perhaps the English Home Militia's and to go along with muskets they sold or gave to the Colonies.

Though I cannot fully document this, I believe any replacement goods made for Williamsburg before the AWI would have been blackened, to match the minimum requirements of the British Military. Of course once the war began and they issued out the leather goods in store, they probably would have accepted dark brown leather goods as they were cheaper without the dyeing.

Since you know the Original Regiment and when they were issued the items from Williamsburg, may I suggest you email Colonial Williamsburg and ask if the leather they issued then was black or brown? I have emailed a lot of questions to the Trade Shops over the years and always got a response within a few days and sometimes within a few hours. Of course you should give them as much information on the unit and when they were issued the gear.

To Tenngun,

Yes, beeswax was applied to cartridge box flaps to make them semi waterproof and that included the British Issued blackened ones, as well as brown ones. That is mentioned in "A Soldier Like Way" and a couple other sources including (I think) Cuthbertson.

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

Emailing them is a very good idea. I even know some folks who are closely associated with Williamsburg who I could ask.

Really appreciate the thoughts, Gus. Often I think in modern ways to answer period questions.

Yet another reason to visit Williamsburg too!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well, if you want a period deep/dark brown dye, then walnut would have been the way to go, especially for someone on the frontier.

Walnut was widely known. As was butternut. Now when done dying you're going to need to add some preservative, even if it's only lard and beeswax or beargrease. Minkoil would probably be better on leather that's fully dry after dying..., so you should take a small scrap, dye it, and then see what color you get when you apply the mink oil, as it will darken. For example dry cowhide the color of a Manila folder often goes toward a coffee-with-cream color when greased, and so forth.

LD

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Another idea would be to look up period INK recipes, and see if you can't use that as a dye, then make it color fast with minkoil. BAD to have it get wet and run all over your kit, eh?

LD

 

[SgtErv]

Very bad indeed. I might actually cry if I dyed my handsewn regimental hahaha

 

[Artificer]

The Serjeant's Major rank and suggestion of using ink got me to think of another way Cartridge Pouches/Boxes were "coloured" during the period.

Cuthbertson mentions issuing both "Blackball" and "Whiteball" to soldiers to use to "dress" their leather accoutrements. These things were not just shoe polish, but also period leather preservative/semi water proofing and were also commonly used by civilians on their shoes/boots. (Whiteball was used on the buff/white straps/belts along with ground pipe clay probably mixed into the Whiteball.)

Some recipes for Blackball include mixing in Iron Gall Ink powder though burnt bone and/or charcoal were also used in other recipes that did not cost as much as adding ink powder. Here's a link on Blackball: http://makinghistorynow.com/2016/01/making-the-curious-black-ball/

Townsend sells one version of it here:
http://www.townsends.us/black-ball-bb294-p-1163.html

Back in the mid 70's when I first began making leather items, the leatherworker who owned the Tandy Store in Fredericksburg, VA informed me that one would get a deeper/richer black colour on leather IF one first dyed the leather brown and even better if one first dyed the leather Dark or Royal Blue. Well, I tried it on some scrap leather first with Fiebings brown dye and later went back and got some Royal Blue dye. Both colours slightly show through the Black Dye at a certain angle in the sunlight, but the Royal Blue dye really added depth of colour. (Later on when I made my UnCivil War Period Officer's Belt, Straps, Holster and Cap Box; I used Royal Blue dye before the Black and it was noticed by quite a few people that my leather had a very good look to it, though they did not realize I had dyed it first with Royal Blue dye.)

The reason I mentioned dyeing the leather brown before black is because it may be similar to how some American Cartridge Pouches/Boxes were "blackedned" by Blackball, after they were turned brown in a tanning vat.

I don't know if SgtErv's unit was issued or purchased Blackball to dress their shoes and Cartridge Pouches/Boxes and other black leather items, but it was well known in the period.

Gus

 

[SgtErv]

I thought about blackball, too. It would have been available at Pitt - settlers were using hog tallow and spot to blcken their home manufactured leather. This reminds me that I have another reference to check as well. It’s a chapter in another book (The Monongalia Story) about earliest tanneries in the Mon Valley. So that at least tells me it was available. I don’t believe the Continentals our this way we’re getting issued anything from back east that commanders couldn’t buy out here instead. That comes up a lot in the documentation.

I believe when they were fitting out the Regiment, the equipment would have come from Williamsburg, at least at first. As far as subsequent issues of clothing and equipment, Virginia also had an procurement agent in Philadelphia and then York. In the summer of 1778, the 13th got issued a few bales of wool for leggings, regimentals, and scarlet shalloon for lining. This occurred when they were on their way back to Pitt. They passed through York, where Congress was then sitting, then on to Pitt via Carlisle and Forbes road.

I got a couple of email addresses for both the head military artificer at Williamsburg as well as a former employee at the saddle shop.

Pretty far drift there but that’s ok. Cool topic

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Well in that case you can buy a sample of Bone Char (8x24) and with a mortar and pestle reduce it to fine powder. I think that Bone Black Pigment is already very finely ground, coming from an art supply dealer.



LD

 

[Artificer]

Excellent tips. Thank you.

BTW, speaking of using Blackball and other period or non period semi waterproofing compounds on leather....... Did they also use Blackball or Wax/Grease on the Bottoms of their shoe/boot soles?

As a child, I remember my Maternal Grandmother telling me my Maternal Grandfather shined his leather shoes every day and put a coat of clear shoe polish on the leather soles once a week to protect them both from rain/snow and from general wear.

Gus