Percussion or Flintlock?

[user 36911]

Some of us are stronger than others. Even when we get old. Repetition builds strength.

Follow me in a days hunt and even your fragile longrifle will get too heavy for you.

 

[oncewas]

Did Glass have one? I was unfamiliar with that. As I recall he died in ‘31 or 32(?)
Roosevelt went west after breech loaders were in common use. Was it his first gun out there?

I'm just going on what was written here
https://ccheadliner.com/opinion/moz...cle_947484b0-f85e-11e6-abf6-738326db634a.html

 

[tenngun]

I would like to see where that got their info from.
I never heard of Boone having one.
Very interesting

 

[user 36911]

If Boone owned one he had to come back from the dead to do it. He died in 1820.

 

[oncewas]

If Boone owned one he had to come back from the dead to do it. He died in 1820.

I don't know maybe he bought one from their shop in Xenia which opened in 1816. I'm not saying it's true just that was where I found the information. Just like Teddy Roosevelt was given a Hawken but I saw nothing about him actually hunting with one.

 

[user 36911]

I don't know maybe he bought one from their shop in Xenia which opened in 1816. I'm not saying it's true just that was where I found the information. Just like Teddy Roosevelt was given a Hawken but I saw nothing about him actually hunting with one.

It would have been a full stock flintlock and not at all like the Hawken in the article. Much closer to the longrifle Boone was used to.

 

[Cattywompuss]

I am curious so please bear with me. I am very new to Black powder and muzzle loading. I have two percussion rifles a GPR and a Tradition St. Louis both from kits. I’m very happy with both and plan to purchase or build more rifles. My question is are most members using percussion or flintlock rifles? Is it necessarily a foregone conclusion that one progresses to flintlock? If so, how long before one makes the plunge or did you start out shooting flintlocks? I understand that this may seem like a silly question but I’m going to build or buy a new Pennsylvania rifle in the near future and thought I’d go with percussion but thought it would be maybe more correct to go with flintlock. I like shooting percussion and think I’ll be happy doing that but I’m afraid I’m missing out. So any guidance or advise please feel free to offer.

I fired my first BPR at age 6. It was percussion. I got my first flintlock last year. Yesterday was my 37th birthday. I had wanted a flintlock since I saw LOTM in theaters with my granddaddy at age 8 or 9. But a lot of life got in the way, as well as literally hundreds of modern firearms and percussion gun, a family, work, etc. So when I stumbled upon some used home-bilt Penn/Kentucky style guns like the TOW guns I had drooled over for years, I finally got a flinter. A year later I now have 5 total flintlocks.

Even sold some EBR's because I'm over the entire "tactical" gun culture now. Used to be immersed in it up to my eyes, including professionally for Uncle Sam, but now I would just as soon not own stuff where the acronym EDC or Load Out of Chest Rig is a factor.

 

[Rudyard]

Some of us are stronger than others. Even when we get old. Repetition builds strength.

Follow me in a days hunt and even your fragile longrifle will get too heavy for you.

Wouldn't be me I've made about 14 long rifles but only carried one ,the first I made . Now I go 33'' (An early flint 45 cal' After' Felix Werder circa 1650 )to 26 "brl of the last completely mid 18th English style runs my desired 5 pounds . I've enough trouble getting me into the bush these days. But I allways ran light as practical which excludes Hawken's . Incidently I knew Mr Baird & wrote an article for his magazine
.Cheers Rudyard

 

[user 36911]

The problem with light guns for me is the recoil. I'd rather carry a heavy gun than feel a hard recoil. I have med problems now that don't handle recoil well. I thought recoil was fun when I was younger.

 

[Rudyard]

The little flint rifle 5 pound weight even with 3 drams dosn't recoil so you,d worry about it . Even if it did kick like a four bore . The bruise should it cause one is still a better option than lugging useless iron about . Recoil is transitory gravity is perminent .. The Wheelock is about 7 pounds but its held mostly by the one Left hand getting a firm hold while the right hand and face take some ( Nothing touching the shoulder ) its 45 & loaded three drams the ball I normaly used had no ill effect .The slightly heavier hollow nose conical was just enough to run my thumb into my nose a bit .. But its good you are so conditioned to lugging heavy guns, But rather you than me .
Regards Rudyard

 

[user 36911]

Like I said. Medical reasons for not wanting recoil. I don't want the weight either but I can tolerate it better than recoil.

 

[Sparkitoff]

My experience with flintlock was not smooth nor instantly gratifying. A lot had to do with the rifle. I started with an inexpensive rifle and a patent breach. As far as flintlocks, in my opinion, ... bad idea. Once I invested the time and money in a more "custom" flintlock my satisfaction went up tremendously. I'll never get another flintlock with a patent breach and I'd prefer not to get a percussion with one either but I might under the right circumstances. One deterrent to flintlock shooting that was a problem for me was getting black powder. I could get substitutes all day long but not "real" black. If you're going to a flintlock it is best to find and get a bunch of powder. I ended up ordering 5+ pounds. The next thing I figured out was not to keep doing the same thing when the results were the same and less than ideal. If something is not right, get it taken care of either by knowledge and work or via a professional. For instance, open the touch-hole to the right size for your rifle. Tune the lock. Once these little things are done a good flintlock is as reliable and accurate as any other rifle and certainly as much as a percussion rifle. I like not having to carry a tin of caps or a capper and sticking one on every shot. I still have and shoot percussion too. There are a few rifles that I like the look and feel and they just don't come in flintlock, like the Zouave for example. Nowadays the flintlock gets the most use and gives the most pleasure but I have percussion rifles and shotguns and use them too for certain applications or when the mood strikes.

 

[R.J.Bruce]

I have osteoarthritis in both shoulders necessitating a low-recoiling rifle, so I understand what MtnMan is talking about. OTOH, I don't want to carry a heavy rifle weighing more than 7 pounds, for the exact same reasons, the osteoarthritis. I prefer to be on the ground moving, as opposed to stationary in a blind, so the all-up weight of the rifle is important.

I have settled on a .45 caliber flintlock, what I first started with back in 1971, at age 17. If I lived where MtnMan did, and needed to hunt elk, then I would have to rethink my caliber choice, move up to a short-barreled, .58 caliber flintlock, and install a Kick-eez Magnum recoil pad on the buttstock. I would do this regardless of how it looked, because I live in the present, the technology would allow me to shoot a .58 (to include the necessary practice), and I love flintlocks.

Living in the past, to the point where I stop shooting and hunting because I don't want to combine 18th Century & 21st Century technology, seems a bit absurd to me. So, I will combine a modern 4140CM steel barrel with a CNC Jim Kibler lock, basic walnut stock, recoil pad, sling swivel bases, and a modern sling.

 

[Art Caputo]

I took up muzzleloading the year that a special deer was created and limited to their use. This was back in the mid 70’s. My first muzzleloader was a TC Hawken made from a kit. After shooting a few deer, I had become totally hooked. A couple of years later I bought a CVS Mountain Rifle Flintlock kit. It performed quite poorly, a combination of the lousy deign and my lack of skills, but I did manage to shoot a deer and eventually graduated to a better rifle as well as perfecting my skills. That was 30 years ago. While I still like, and shoot my percussion rifles on occasion, since then I favor the flintlock for my serious hunting and shooting.
I’m fascinated by the design, history, and effectiveness.

 

[Booneliane]

Did Glass have one? I was unfamiliar with that. As I recall he died in ‘31 or 32(?)
Roosevelt went west after breech loaders were in common use. Was it his first gun out there?

I doubt Roosevelt used a front stuffer of any sort in his time in the west considering he didn’t get out west until 1883.

If I remember, his all time favorite in later years was a Winchester 1895.

 

[Booneliane]

So we can’t prove a half stock flintlock “Hawken” existed because we can’t find one in existence today.

But we can’t necessarily prove without doubt one DIDNT exist either.

What percentage of original guns exist today? Hawkens didn’t make many guns, but how many of the few they made persisted to modern times?

I say, use your imagination.

 

[user 36911]

It doesn't work that way. All the documentation points to the half stock Hawken plains rifle being a caplock. You'll have to prove a flintlock was made for it to be accepted.

You can have a flintlock Hawken but it will be an early full stock rifle that looks like a longrifle more than the plains rifle.

 

[Cattywompuss]

So we can’t prove a half stock flintlock “Hawken” existed because we can’t find one in existence today.

But we can’t necessarily prove without doubt one DIDNT exist either.

What percentage of original guns exist today? Hawkens didn’t make many guns, but how many of the few they made persisted to modern times?

I say, use your imagination.

MtnMan makes a fair point. While there is definitely nothing wrong with making a theoretical fantasy gun, we cannot claim they existed because of lack of proof that they didn't. Hawken only made low numbers of guns compared to what became the arms factories of the east. They made a heap of guns for a small shop. One trapping party from the AFC stopped in St. Louis and bought 30 Hawken rifles and a heap of other stuff. A shop like we imagine when we dream of the lone craftsman carving and tuning and engraving and teaching his lone apprentice in German is not what the Hawkens had going on.
They may have wanted to reach the level of a Henry Leman who started as a gunmaker and ended up a factory owner. We can't know that,, but we do know based on volume that they were not "One at a timers". As it was they became prominent at the end of the ML Era, when men like Christian Sharp's were going to change the world. Ironically, even Sharp's rifles would be killed by even better tinkerers who would make more powerful guns that loaded faster.

 

[French Colonial]

I do not understand the obsession with having the Hawken name on it. You know they had half stock flintlocks in large calibers....why does it have to say Hawken on it? Get a half stock flintlock in 54 caliber or bigger and enjoy it!

 

[user 36911]

I do not understand the obsession with having the Hawken name on it. You know they had half stock flintlocks in large calibers....why does it have to say Hawken on it? Get a half stock flintlock in 54 caliber or bigger and enjoy it!

Cuz!