Percussion caps in period

[HiDesertHunter]

Many people just kept using what they had and if you didn't rely on guns to live i.e. you were just an average Joe with a job or a sharecropper, you probably rarely if ever fired your guns.

This is spot on.

It's no different than how certain period firearms are referred to as 'cowboy guns' when the reality is the greater amount of these guns were owned by people other than 'Cowboys' - who comprised a pretty small number in comparison to the overall population during the classic 'cowboy' period.

 

[Bob McBride]

I imagine, just like today, a percussion guy and a flint guy would sit around the fire in the wagon train ring of a night and call each other idiots for the ignition system they chose to carry across the plains..... one man with a sack of rocks and the other with a sack of caps. The rest of the party grinning at the two arguing greenhorns who both forgot to pack flour....

 

[toot]

And paddling canoes, hiking, and camping in tents......

I thought we did that allready, no?

 

[Carbon 6]

If your supply of caps gets wet, you are done.
If your supply of flints gets wet, it is a minor inconvenience.

It's a false dichotomy.
For half a century I've been traipsing around the woods and have never lost my caps or gotten them wet. I've hunted all year round in all weather. Heck percussion guns fair much better in the rain than a flintlock does.
I think you guys are worrying about nothing. It's all a game of odds. If I drop my gun and break the hammer I'm equally screwed flint or percussion.

 

[Carbon 6]

Broken guns, lost caps or flints etc. The mountain man has insurance, it's called redundancy.
You traveled in groups, you had caches, you brought extra caps and flints, extra guns, parts, things were water proofed etc. When that failed, you begged, borrowed, or stole. If you exhausted all those, you went native, or you died.
But, it is also worth noting that a great many people traveled west without firing a single shot.

 

[Old Hawkeye]

It's a false dichotomy.
For half a century I've been traipsing around the woods and have never lost my caps or gotten them wet. I've hunted all year round in all weather. Heck percussion guns fair much better in the rain than a flintlock does.
I think you guys are worrying about nothing. It's all a game of odds. If I drop my gun and break the hammer I'm equally screwed flint or percussion.

Agreed! Seems some people think that flints aren't subject to the exact same issues as any other item used in that period. Some how they magically avoid getting broken, lost, or depleted & allow the pioneer back then to, inexplicably, be more self assured. On the other hand, those evil caps will lead to your demise while the "flinter" merrily strolls by your bones picking up extra flints off the ground as he goes.

 

[Carbon 6]

Agreed! Seems some people think that flints aren't subject to the exact same issues as any other item used in that period. Some how they magically avoid getting broken, lost, or depleted & allow the pioneer back then to, inexplicably, be more self assured. On the other hand, those evil caps will lead to your demise while the "flinter" merrily strolls by your bones picking up extra flints off the ground as he goes.

It makes me wonder what people do when they go hunting or just out in nature.
Me, I immerse myself in my surroundings, becoming all things amateur. A meteorologist, biologist, anthropologist, geologist, botanist, zoologist, ornithologists, etc. Hunter, trapper, fisherman etc.

 

[Crow-Feather]

The main thought in a trappers mind was what would best save his life. That is why Bridger and Fitzgerald buried Hugh Glass alive. It is why 100 trappers went as a party other than going on their own. Being killed was the number one fear of the trapper. All other fears were based on that premise. I would imagine the second fear would be your rifle not firing when the trigger was pulled. An Indian that saw a puff of smoke without the rifle firing knew he had a little time to rise, take careful aim, and release an arrow before the trapper could bring his rifle to battery. Trappers also knew this. So a failed ignition with a flint would give your position and your current situation. Not so much with a cap. In the rain, the cap also has the advantage. Especially with the second and third shots. One has enough problems with whatever is trying to kill them. They do not need to worry about keeping the pan dry also.
I was a person who relied on my weapon for self defense. I had so many bullets. Knowing this, I never lost a bullet in 38 years. I believe it would be the same for most trappers. Picking up a flint off the ground to replace lost flints wasn't always possible. There was no Chert in Idaho. I believe that I would have caps in several locations on my person. I also doubt that trappers went around popping pine cones off trees for fun. They fired their rifles only when nothing else would work as there were unfriendly people that would investigate a gun shot. Next time that you are in the woods, think that anyone seeing you or hearing your shot, is going to try and kill you. Then think about what you would want to to be carrying to defend yourself.

 

[smoothshooter]

It's a false dichotomy.
For half a century I've been traipsing around the woods and have never lost my caps or gotten them wet. I've hunted all year round in all weather. Heck percussion guns fair much better in the rain than a flintlock does.
I think you guys are worrying about nothing. It's all a game of odds. If I drop my gun and break the hammer I'm equally screwed flint or percussion.

Have you crossed multiple rivers several feet deep on a horse when there is the risk of the horse losing it’s footing or stepping off into a deep hole with horse, rider, and all equipment getting submerged? What about canoes and rafts? Lots of ways of getting caps wet or lost. We cannot assume the horseman always had his year’s supply of caps on his person. If powder gets wet, it can be dried out and still used. I don’t think caps can be dried out and used.

 

[tenngun]

As a brand new buckskinner I wondered where to stuff my smoke and fire kit, along with those pesky modern stiff I needed like wallet and keys. My first choice was a pipe sack hung on my belt.
Oh it looked good. I could strike a good pose for the camera as a steely eyed mountain man. Problem was I didn’t have to walk far before it would slip. So I had ties to hold it on.
since then I’ve used all manner of belt bags to do the trick. Best answer is a F&I period waistcoat with deep pockets, but that’s pretty time specific.
Looking at paintings we don’t see a lot of side pouches stuck on belts.... hmmm
Why not?
Being alone on your own was rare and then mostly emergency. Folks were part of a team.and in their remuda was packs of survival stuff. As much as I love my flinters and would trust them in a survival They give no practical advantage in the woods.
Cap guns were made by 1830 for the western trade. Who went beyond the pale? Trappers, Indian traders, and the Santafe trail boys. Settlements largely stopped for a time at the edge of the Great Plains. Then a decade later the plains were an ocean of grass to be crossed to get to the Oregon, later Utah and California. It wouldn’t be till after the war the plains them selves became a target of settlers
So the first cap poppers were made for them steely eyed plainsman.
After the war we see a plethora of breechloaders, Sharps, Rolling blocks and wonder of wonders Winchester repeaters. Folks reloaded but bought these guns like hot cakes, they didn’t seem to worry that they wouldn’t find stuff to feed their guns.
They weren’t gun nuts. They couldn’t give a fig about traditional.
If they had it they would have used is a mantra of people today who wish to fudge on historicly correct. And it’s absolutely true.
had ol Jim Bridger walked in to a trading post and found a flinter, a Hawken or an AR 15 and a few thousand rounds guess which one he would pick up.
People didn’t switch over to cap guns because it was the newest people grabbed them because they worked. And( it gives me the creeps to say this) they were superior to flinters

 

[Carbon 6]

Have you crossed multiple rivers several feet deep on a horse when there is the risk of the horse losing it’s footing or stepping off into a deep hole with horse, rider, and all equipment getting submerged? What about canoes and rafts? Lots of ways of getting caps wet or lost. We cannot assume the horseman always had his year’s supply of caps on his person. If powder gets wet, it can be dried out and still used. I don’t think caps can be dried out and used.

You dip your tin of caps in beeswax, problem solved.

 

[Feltwad]

Anybody know when the first percussion caps were made and when .
Feltwad

 

[Carbon 6]

Didn't the first guy blow himself up ?

 

[tenngun]

Anybody know when the first percussion caps were made and when .
Feltwad

Off hand I’m thinking Shaw in 1818. But there were:
Pill locks, scent bottle, tube locks, Pauly breech loaders

 

[Stantheman86]

This is spot on.

It's no different than how certain period firearms are referred to as 'cowboy guns' when the reality is the greater amount of these guns were owned by people other than 'Cowboys' - who comprised a pretty small number in comparison to the overall population during the classic 'cowboy' period.

Romance vs Fact , fueled by books and movies. Just like today. No

Broken guns, lost caps or flints etc. The mountain man has insurance, it's called redundancy.
You traveled in groups, you had caches, you brought extra caps and flints, extra guns, parts, things were water proofed etc. When that failed, you begged, borrowed, or stole. If you exhausted all those, you went native, or you died.
But, it is also worth noting that a great many people traveled west without firing a single shot.

This is the big one, we assume that early Frontiers people were shooting every single day and were running 50 rounds through their Hawkens and long rifles per day.

Ironically I'm sitting on land right now in PA where there was a Fierce and Bloody Indian vs Settler battle in the 1750's, obviously the founders of my town used their Flintlocks to repel an Indian raiding party and probably had to pump out quite a few rounds.

There's a reason the US Army started a massive undertaking in the 1850s to convert every Flintlock in inventory to percussion, including every State Militia armory . Because for military use, Percussion was vastly superior.

Most of us love Flintlocks because they're pretty, romantic and "classic" but any of us with any shred of sanity knows a person who shoots to live upgraded as soon as they were able.

 

[tenngun]

Ran to look it up in a coffee table book ‘The Age of Firearms by Robert Held’ not an in depth study: photo order third,second,forth, first

 

[Pete G]

I read that Lewis and Clark also carried an air rifle with them ? If this is an accurate statement they must have thought in advance about running out of caps and powder?

The Indians were scared and in awe of the air rifle.

The Lewis and Clark expedition begin in 1803, considerably before the wide availability of percussion caps.

 

[smoothshooter]

You dip your tin of caps in beeswax, problem solved.

Kinda hard to get open though. And everything sticks to it.
Both systems have their pro’s and cons. When caps became cheaper and easier to find, and flints less so, most people switched to the percussion system for various reasons, most of them good.
Besides, it was something “new”.

 

[Feltwad]

Ran to look it up in a coffee table book ‘The Age of Firearms by Robert Held’ not an in depth study: photo order third,second,forth, firstView attachment 52189View attachment 52190View attachment 52191View attachment 52192

Things that are wrote in books are not always correct it is better too research what is written it is surprizing what comes to light .
Feltwad

 

[tenngun]

That’s a truism. But I’ve not spent much time looking in to the origin of caps as I consider them at best a passing fad.