Percussion caps in period

[Irishmusket]

It was not until 1842 that the US Army officially adopted percussion system for service .The US government at the same time went about converting model 1816 and 1840 flintlock muskets to percussion I would however like to mention the fact that an awful lot of Model 1816 flint lock muskets saw active service in US Mexican war with US Army in 1846/48 .The historical reality the flintlock was still the most common gun in this country and the rest World until about the early 1850 s by 1860 the flintlock was almost gone .Though some flintlocks were used during our Civil War.The percussion era came at the tail end of muzzle loading era of firearms. Hand gonne 1350 to 1500 ,the Matchlock musket 1420 to 1690, the Fintlock 1630 to 1840 the percussion cap from 1820 to 1865 Breech loading cartridge starting 1841 Starting with Dreyse (Prussia) to present

 

[Irishmusket]

Tenngun is absolutely correct there was little or no standard size cap size will very they were sensitive to dampness with very poor shelf life easily corroded frequently failed to fire or more often than not not fit your gun not to mention that in the1830 s and 40s even the nipples were not of a standard size thread or cone or nock nope not at all .These problems would be overcome to some degree by the 1850s especially on colt revolvers and Military arms both American and European worked on it .By the Civil war percussion ignition was perfected however It was completely obsolete.The breech loader and the repeating rifle were here

 

[Stantheman86]

That's one fact in that book that we haven't touched on, that the tuning and fitting of locks was much less important for Percussion weapons , you simply needed to pop the cap.

The US Ordnance Dept went through every arsenal and attempted to convert every musket that wasn't rusted and busted to Percussion, employing dozens of independent contractors of varying skill and size. Despite this massive undertaking which turned up Revolutionary War era and older muskets still in storage, the US and CS Army still had men carrying flinters into battle at Bull Run.

In my opinion, technologically, by 1863 Percussion Muzzleloading military rifles were obsolete , it was just that Breech Loaders were expensive and weren't for the rank and file yet and Muskets and Rifle-muskets were plentiful. By 1866 the end of military use of the Percussion front stuffer had arrived , only about 10 years after the Army standardized on a .58 Muzzleloading rifle.

Just like the entire history of firearms , advanced technology existed but was too expensive and out of reach of the "common" person. Joe Average wouldn't have had one of those early Egg Lock etc rifles and even though Breech Loaders like the Ferguson Rifle were available in the 1770s. They were far too expensive to crank out in large numbers. A rifle with an accurate range of 300 yards with a rate of fire of 6-7 rounds per minute was unfathomable in that period but they couldn't be made in any great numbers.

In theory the muzzleloading flintlock was obsolete by the early 1800s.

 

[tenngun]

I’m put in mind of some guns I’ve only seen grainy photos of. Wheelocks were first put on straight stocks and some were fitted with match locks also. Old timers back up I guess. Then tube locks had a brass tube that fit in the touch hole and they made some convertible, could use as tube or change the jaws install a flint and fire away. In the school of the ozarks in Hollister Missouri there is a combo percussion flint lock match lock gun.

 

[Feltwad]

Patches and pills not forgetting Joe Mantons tubes all played an important part in the development of the percussion cap The tubes were just has quick has todays copper cap although I do not think any crossed the pond. It was Forsyth that held back the progress of the percussion cap by years with his law suits against any gun makers that used his fultimate in their ignition.
Feltwad
Tubes

 

[Irishmusket]

The main thought in a trappers mind was what would best save his life. That is why Bridger and Fitzgerald buried Hugh Glass alive. It is why 100 trappers went as a party other than going on their own. Being killed was the number one fear of the trapper. All other fears were based on that premise. I would imagine the second fear would be your rifle not firing when the trigger was pulled. An Indian that saw a puff of smoke without the rifle firing knew he had a little time to rise, take careful aim, and release an arrow before the trapper could bring his rifle to battery. Trappers also knew this. So a failed ignition with a flint would give your position and your current situation. Not so much with a cap. In the rain, the cap also has the advantage. Especially with the second and third shots. One has enough problems with whatever is trying to kill them. They do not need to worry about keeping the pan dry also.
I was a person who relied on my weapon for self defense. I had so many bullets. Knowing this, I never lost a bullet in 38 years. I believe it would be the same for most trappers. Picking up a flint off the ground to replace lost flints wasn't always possible. There was no Chert in Idaho. I believe that I would have caps in several locations on my person. I also doubt that trappers went around popping pine cones off trees for fun. They fired their rifles only when nothing else would work as there were unfriendly people that would investigate a gun shot. Next time that you are in the woods, think that anyone seeing you or hearing your shot, is going to try and kill you. Then think about what you would want to to be carrying to defend yourself.

 

[Irishmusket]

many of the points you have made good sense how ever the percussion caps today are much better quality in the day they were not water proof and highly corrosive and far from consistent by 1860 water proof caps were common but were highly corrosive wich severally effects reliability if not particularly and carefully maintained nipple fireway breech drum lock will rust like all getout were less consistent or reliable than the caps as was the gun powder we have today. In the day it was very different that today.As far shooting in damp and rainy conditions percussion poor reliability80% if loaded in dry conditions reloading in the rain very very poor or not at all not recommended I am an old man been heavily into all aspects of muzzleloading since the middle sixties been an active gunsmith most of my life specialize in muzzle loaders since early seventies

 

[tenngun]

I would hazard rain is hard on our sport with or with out caps

 

[omark]

I would hazard rain is hard on our sport with or with out caps

I know it's sure hard on me

 

[Crow-Feather]

Have you crossed multiple rivers several feet deep on a horse when there is the risk of the horse losing it’s footing or stepping off into a deep hole with horse, rider, and all equipment getting submerged? What about canoes and rafts? Lots of ways of getting caps wet or lost. We cannot assume the horseman always had his year’s supply of caps on his person. If powder gets wet, it can be dried out and still used. I don’t think caps can be dried out and used.

There wasn't water tight containers in those days?

 

[CaptainKirk]

There wasn't water tight containers in those days?

Yeah...if you had enough forethought to do it before leaving Saint Looie...

 

[Bob McBride]

Whenever someone says rain this time of year all I can think of is that I’ll be in the deer stand with the lock covered by my coat an hour before it stops....

 

[LongWalker]

I see the comments that "you can pick up a flint off the ground", "just look in any meandering stream & get a flint" & the general assumption that "flints are everywhere" through out this thread. Both the Oregon & Morman Trails pass thru were I live & I have paralleled their route along the Platte River across Nebraska (456 miles). There is NO FLINT to be found along that route.

I spent a good part of my childhood living between the trails in the Platte valley. Until I moved away, I didn't buy flints: I knapped them from rocks found in the river. Flint, chert, petrified wood, agate (including some really nice agatized wood that made great flints). I've traveled the Platte from end to end, and never had a day go by that I didn't see potential material for gunflints.

In some places, some of the streams through the valley have cut down to deposits of glacial till, which were also sometimes a source of raw material. There are flint deposits down near Norton KS that have been mined since prehistoric times (mediocre gunflint material, unless heat-treated).

 

[Crow-Feather]

I spent a good part of my childhood living between the trails in the Platte valley. Until I moved away, I didn't buy flints: I knapped them from rocks found in the river. Flint, chert, petrified wood, agate (including some really nice agatized wood that made great flints). I've traveled the Platte from end to end, and never had a day go by that I didn't see potential material for gunflints.

In some places, some of the streams through the valley have cut down to deposits of glacial till, which were also sometimes a source of raw material. There are flint deposits down near Norton KS that have been mined since prehistoric times (mediocre gunflint material, unless heat-treated).

All you had to do was lose your flints in that area,.

 

[Stantheman86]

Legalities held back a lot of technology.

In Europe there was early cartridge guns but everyone was afraid of getting sued and S&W didn't want to make a full size Service revolver......so an entire series of wars were fought with men of various nations carrying sidearms using outdated technology because of the Rollin White patent.

Anyone with any $$$ had abandoned Flinters by the 1830s at the latest.

I can't get into Unmentionables but the same holds true today with modern technology.