Pedersolis Are Like Rabbits (New Frontier .45 Cal Flintlock)

Discussion in 'Flintlock Rifles' started by Enfield58, Nov 20, 2019.

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  1. Nov 22, 2019 #21

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

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    I plan on keeping the buckhorn rear sight. I had got use to them on other rifles when I was younger. I also discovered that I could use them as a means to adjusting my elevation back in the day. That was more by accident than anyone teaching me.

    Rather than explaining it myself, please go to the link to read Tom Gaylord's article on how to use the buckhorn sight.

    https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2015/11/buckhorn-sights-and-kentucky-windage/

    Even though I haven't had a chance to shoot it yet, I've gleaned some ballistics information from Lyman's Blackpowder handbook. I'll have to do my own load development and chronographing but I think Lyman's information is a good starting point to illustrate what I want to say.

    Using a 60 grain charge for a .45 caliber round ball Lyman shows a velocity between 1755 to 1831 FPS for a 40 inch and 43 inch barrel. The Frontier rifle has a 41 inch barrel but I'm going to estimate a velocity of 1700 FPS. The reason that I think the velocity will be lower is that the chamber pressure will be lower due to some of it vented out the side of the flintlock.

    Using the drop figures and math I came up with the following sight pictures. I took Mr. Gaylord's illustrations and put the range values in place. His pictures are not an accurate depiction of the buckhorn sight on the Frontier rifle but serve to illustrate my point.

    50 Yard Buckhorn Sight Picture.jpg 175 Yard Buckhorn Sight Picture.jpg 235 Yard Buckhorn Sight Picture.jpg

    Now let's consider this. Daniel Morgan's men had to hit a 7 inch target at 250 yards. When you look at the diagram above, you can see that is a doable task.

    I don't know if the riflemen were permitted to use a rest or go prone during this test but I submit that it was permissible. These marksmen would have used every aid available to harvest game with the rifles and I imagine that it would have been natural to use a rest or go prone during the test to hit a deer at long distances.

    General Morgan would have been use to doing this as well from the time that he was a lad and learning to shoot on the frontier.

    British COL Hanger's account of getting shot at by a Rebel marksmen explains that his would-be-assassin took a prone position to shoot at the trio on horseback at 300 yards.

    https://allthingsliberty.com/2017/03/prowess-american-riflemen-mystery-now-solved/

    A 7 inch target at 250 yards is a little less than 2.7 MOA. That represents a circle with a diameter of 2.8 inches at 100 yards. That's about the size of a baseball.

    I don't know if the Frontier rifle is capable of that kind of accuracy but after I determine the most accurate load, I'm going to see if I can accomplish the Morgan rifleman test:) I'll have to report the results back later.

    I also did some math based on the length of a deer from brisket to tail of 60 inches. At the widest portion of the inside of the buckhorn sight, I figured that a 60 inch long deer would be about 70 yards away if it fit inside that gap if you were looking down the rifle.

    That same deer, if you fit him inside the tips of the horns on the sight, would be about 200 yards away.

    A man with a height of 66 inches was common in those days. If the average man fit inside the (vertical) gap between the tip of one horn and the bottom inside of the sight he would be about 140 yards away. If he fit halfway between the gap then he would be about 280 yards away.

    So the buckhorn was not only capable of providing the rifleman elevation adjustments for different ranges but also served a primitive range finder.

    I will be the first to admit that the last assertion may have not been implemented by the riflemen of that day. Nevertheless, they were probably very adept at determining range.

    There is an old adage that if you ever had to walk a lot, you also got very good at judging distances. Your's truly has hiked many miles and I'm not bragging when I say that I'm fairly good at judging distances out to about 600 yards. The riflemen of that day were probably no different.
     
  2. Dec 2, 2019 #22

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

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    I got the Frontier sighted in at 50 yards. I had to file quite a bit off the sight to get it to shoot higher. I even reduced the width. I'm still not saitified. So I got this sight on order from TOW. It is about .034" thinner than the Pedersoli sight and sits .220" high.

    https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/874/1/FS-TC-LB

    [​IMG]

    With a charge of 52 grains of powder, I am getting the tightest groups which are about 2 inches at 50 yards. I get some fliers which I can tell that are my fault as soon as the shot goes off. I had to file the stock sight down to where it is .180" high to get me on at 50 yards.

    The ball is .440" and I'm using pre-lubed pillow ticking of .015." That combination gives me a muzzle velocity of 1650 FPS.

    I'm not going to run the numbers in a ballistics computer to calculate the holdover at longer distances with the stock buckhorn sight. I've got another, less traditional, rear sight on order for my old man eyes. It is made by Marble and I got it on order from Midway USA.

    [​IMG]

    So when I get the replacement sights, I will still have more work to do.

    Overall, I'm very pleased with the rifle. I drilled out the touch hole liner with a #50 drill bit which opens it up from 1/16" (0.0625") to .070." The ignition is very reliable if I swab the frizzen, flint and pan down about every 3-5 shots with an alcohol soaked patch.

    I have a question on touch hole liners which will be the topic for another thread.
     
  3. Dec 2, 2019 #23

    Jay

    Jay

    Jay

    32 Cal

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    Does that rear sight count as a primitive site the club I shoot with only allows primitive sites
     
  4. Dec 2, 2019 #24

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    40 cal - b

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    I don't know if it would count as a primitive sight as it is probably a 19th or 20th century invention. The illustration below shows what I am planning for the sight when I get it and the replacement front sight.

    Hopefully, I can get a machinist to cut gaps at top dead center so I can use it like a "modern" buckhorn sight. I would still have the ability to use it like a peep sight but also be able to adjust my holdover for longer ranges.

    The red portion of the drawing represents the front sight and the various points of holdover for longer distances.

    Any comments or suggestions are greatly welcomed.

    IMG_1361.jpg
     
  5. Dec 3, 2019 #25

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

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    I'm still waiting on the replacement sights. In the meantime, I've ordered the coning tool.





     
  6. Dec 11, 2019 #26

    michael mcghee

    michael mcghee

    michael mcghee

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    dont mean to high jack your post... who has the best price on flintlock in 54 cal?? seen them on gunbroker around 800$$ thanks michael
     
  7. Dec 11, 2019 #27

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

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    No problem on hi-jacking. I would not know who makes the best flintlock in .54 caliber. However, I was looking at the Mortimer made by Pedersoli.

    I really liked the features of that rifle; hooked breech, water-proof lock, sling swivels, etc...

    I didn't get it because I really wanted one in .45 caliber. I cannot speak for the Mortimer as I don't own one but have read great things about them. They cost a lot but so does a custom flintlock rifle.

    https://www.dixiegunworks.com/index...Pedersoli+Mortimer+Flintlock+Rifle+54+caliber

    https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=97&pid=41&offset=0

    https://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=97&pid=42&offset=0





    Here is a video on Cabela's Blue Ridge flintlock in .54 caliber which is made by Pedersoli and is the same model as the Frontier rifle.

     
  8. Dec 11, 2019 #28

    michael mcghee

    michael mcghee

    michael mcghee

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    should put who has the best price on the pedersolis frontier rifle in 54 cal
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  9. Dec 11, 2019 #29

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

    Enfield58

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    If you are wanting one in the maple stock, you are going to pay more. So you would have to go to Jedediah Starr and the maple version is running $1620.00.

    Anyway, Cabela's looks like the best price for the Blue Ridge rifle at $669.99. Which is the plain walnut version.
     
  10. Dec 11, 2019 #30

    michael mcghee

    michael mcghee

    michael mcghee

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    cabela's might put the blue ridge on sell next year ..
     
  11. Dec 19, 2019 #31

    MSW

    MSW

    MSW

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    yes. if you put your rifles in the safe and then turn off the lights … well … you connect the dots. This is why I avoid ugly rifles: regression to the norm just doesn't happen in my gun safe … all my guns are good looking. (Sorta like where all the men are handsome, all the women are strong, and all the children are above average.)

    The gestation period is long, however - sometimes as much as two years. (unlike coat hangers, which take about twenty minutes to cycle over) … also, remember that smoothbores are induced ovulators, like a cat or a rabbit, and are prone to multiple births … twins are not uncommon.

    just my two cents worth ...
     
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  12. Dec 20, 2019 #32

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

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    So when I opened the door today......
    Papa Pedersoli came and decided he likes it here!
    He has decided to stay!
    Pennsylvania 50 cal. (BS - 2002)
    (Thank you Scott!)
    20191219_183942_HDR.jpg
     
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  13. Dec 20, 2019 #33

    flinter1977

    flinter1977

    flinter1977

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    :( My two must be both male . I've still only got two.
     
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  14. Dec 20, 2019 #34

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    Griz44Mag

    40 Cal. MLF Supporter

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    I was very tempted to make some politically incorrect statement about San Francisco, but decided since this is not the political section, decided not to.
    (Sorry, sometimes I just can't be quiet when I should be)
     
  15. Dec 21, 2019 #35

    rrebuck

    rrebuck

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    My Pedersoli family is growing too. I actually bought a Pedersoli 45 cal. percussion pistol on e b a y the other day. Only thing it was missing was the brass nose cap. I've contacted Pedersoli and it sounds like they'll be sending me the parts after they get back from Christmas.
     
  16. Dec 24, 2019 #36

    TerryK

    TerryK

    TerryK

    40 Cal.

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    I have the Mortimer and it is simply beautiful. Case hardened parts, great wood, and a super lock that even has a safety. They are expensive, but worth it in my opinion.
     
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