Pedersoli Volunteer rifle

Discussion in 'Percussion Rifles' started by dodger, Feb 7, 2017.

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  1. Sep 19, 2019 #41

    GREENSWLDE

    GREENSWLDE

    GREENSWLDE

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    Refering to the P/H volunteer.I shot next to David Monk at the 1979 Capt.Heaton 1000yds event at Bisley when he shot with one of the two proto-type .451" Volunteers.
    It was a hammer rifled RIGBY form Marked 11.The other was Marked 1. He used a Lyman mould which I believe was designed for the rifle.I still have the mould.It is No.457125DM casting at 452. I shot with a Ratchet rifled .452" COOPER AND GOODMAN CBL used as a ML And came away with the Silver.I had Davids rifle for many years when he stopped shooting.I believe the rifle is now in Scotland. David went on to Manufacture is own rifles.THE MONK RIGBY originally using barrels rifled by the late Duncan Bedford before he used ones by I believe M.T. before he stopped shooting. He won the event by quite a large margin..
     
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  2. Sep 19, 2019 #42

    GREENSWLDE

    GREENSWLDE

    GREENSWLDE

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    I have been back thru' my old records and found the Heaton Match 1979. The bullet I can find from LYMAN MOULD 457125 is lubed and weighs 540gr. and the powder charge was 90gr of TPPH from Curtiss & Harvey (ICI).
    OLD DOG..
     
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  3. Sep 20, 2019 #43

    Stantheman86

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    I wish someone would make authentic stock mounted scope mounts.....
     
  4. Sep 20, 2019 #44

    srkmarine1101

    srkmarine1101

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    I've been very interested in getting a volunteer rifle for years. The one thing that keeps me away each time is that I worry about the whole cast bullet process and having to source that much lead cheaply!
     
  5. Sep 20, 2019 #45

    TFoley

    TFoley

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    Ah, you wish to replicate the Colonel Davidson scope mount, eh? Having shot a two-band replica with a similar mount, I can readily advise you that it is THE most awkward way of looking through a scope that can be imagined. It is, in other words, as ergonomic as a plane handle on a bowling ball.
     
  6. Sep 20, 2019 #46

    GREENSWLDE

    GREENSWLDE

    GREENSWLDE

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    There is a drawing of Mr. Metfords Mounting in the British NRA Sight Manual of 1964. It is higher and nearer the centre that Col. Davidsons.. if I can only find a way to send it..
    OLD DOG..
     
  7. Sep 21, 2019 #47

    Stantheman86

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    Wasn't this mount designed for the Creedmor shooting position? I would assume adopted by the CSA Sharpshooters, given the Whitworth with documented CS Provenance with the stock mounted scope (Davidson) .
     

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  8. Sep 21, 2019 #48

    Rudyard

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    Now heres an interesting topic I can relate too. In UK the principal match shooting being with Enfield's or 451 / 461 ect at ranges from 100 to 1,000 yards since this was the traditional way most ranges . Being Govt/Army ranges where set out to these distances . The 100 yards comps seemed a brutal way to go if the longer the range the more at home was that class of rifle. I recall shooting on Stickledown at 900 and being approached by a boy whos parents where watching what we were doing .He politly asked "What are you shooting at?" expecting no doubt spurts of dirt at maybe 100 yards since we had such' muskets '. I waved a sooty finger down range where the targets were going up & down . "There" I expect I said . Collin Perrin used to say it" Was like launching your own moon rocket"all the careful loading, notes ,wind & humidity all comeing into play. I only had a Military Match style rifle made up from the then available unused Martini Henry barrels . The 461 Gibbs Metfords being the most esteemed . But as regards to round ball I do recall just such a rifle made again from old MH surplus win the Patched Ball or perhaps the Lockeridge Huppen bower for replica rifles shot by Richard ? Whittiker at 100 yards , so it could work if you persevered .

    My own I took to Canada and evolved an expedient loading of 15 grains powder a ball of rag and forcing a 44 revolver ball down after it my purpose soley to harvest Spruce Grouse or Francolin or hares for the pot on one long 13 day decent of the Mosley Homathka river down from Tatla Lake to Butte Inlet through the coast range of British Columbia round Mt Waddington at 13,177 feet the highest mountain in Canada .Not that I fool with the peaks ,The glacial run of was cold enough for me.
    But I did run into and Amourous bull Moose and sneeking by them I got rumbled and in short order I found my self looking up its nose . Had I the bayonet for it. It would reach it fine but my 15 grains wasn't really going to be up to it, my knife & small belt axe more usefull. " Oh bother" I thought, but I had read an account of how if confronted by bears you could'nt out pace & it wasn't enough to risk playing possum, So' Talk to it as nothing else does ', So I applied this recourse to Brer Moose I pointed out I had won a Gold at Bisley (I had the Lockeridge Huppenbuoer ) And how I " Could eat a Moose for tiffin" and Added 'Unkind observations as to his looks and ancestry ' . This worked ( or I likley would'nt be here to write of it ) .He backed away and very pleased I was to see him go join the Cow . I later went down the Klina Klini River took 17 days but took a double conversion to cap 16 bore shotgun .This was the best choice I believe as you can have small shot in one barrel & a patched ball in the other . Returning to our 451s I used to Import 451 & 38 cal barrels made in New Zealand by Tony Hawkins from two I made up two No frills' Poor mans full match' rifles one of which Gordon Gerard shot to gain the record one time at Bisley short range On Short Sibeiria . It was dubbed 'The poor mans full match' pistol gripped, half,stocked, a one in 20 pitch 451. His 38 1 in 18" pitch was I believe a better choice than the thumping 451s at 100 & up to 600 if I shot at the Diggle ranges , I never shot it beyond .

    But shot the ' military match' at Trentham near Wellington NZ once 800 yds I think. But the heat haze was fearful & I did no good . Incidently you are supposed to loose the Lock Hupp by one point. NOT win or take it home as it rather resembles a headstone . Mole Benn used to win it ( There where few replica rifle or matches at the time ) But he tis said used to leave it in the tap room of the' Hen & Chickens' in Bisley Village. But I took it home . It bore the message 'To Ed Lockeridge & Charlie Huppenbower may there allways be men around like these to help those starting out ' Very noble sentiments. But wags would say " May there allways be men around like these. To help carry away trophies like these ". As it stood some 18 by 20" or so square . Regards Rudyard
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2019
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  9. Sep 21, 2019 #49

    TFoley

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    Not likely that the sharpshooters of the Confederacy had anything to do with Creedmoor or the so-called Creedmoor shooting position. The story of Creedmoor and its place in competition began on September 26th 1874 at the Creedmoor National Rifle Range in Long Island, New York. The Creedmoor range was opened the previous spring in 1873 and was built to be the home of what was then a little-known organisation that had been formed in 1871 calling itself the “National Rifle Association”, better known today simply as, the NRA.

    1873 also saw the establishment of the “Amateur Club of New York” within the NRA by a group of civilian riflemen whose aim was to promote the use of the fullbore sporting rifle as a national pastime without any military overtones.
     
  10. Sep 21, 2019 #50

    GREENSWLDE

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    Stan, Your Woodcut looks rather like a rifleman of the 95th FOOT with his Baker Rifle. Patched ball accurate over 300yds.Still exist as the Rifle Regiment.
    OLD DOG.
     
  11. Sep 21, 2019 #51

    ResearchPress

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    Rather than being designed for the back (or supine) position, the side mounting was used so that when the telescope was depressed for long range it clears the muzzle of the barrel. Also, when aiming at long range with the open barrel sights the head is lifted from the stock, but the side mounted scope enabled the cheek to continue contact with the stock. While the telescope was mounted it did not interfere with the use of the open sights, and could be taken off or put on quickly.

    David
     
  12. Sep 22, 2019 #52

    Stantheman86

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    I mean ,it seems plausible. ....the soldier has a flintlock Baker rifle shooting in a "supine" position?

    I had read that early scopes were terrible and had absurd eye relief and bad Parallax.

    Use of iron sights as a "primary " would make sense.

    Creedmor maybe popularized the "supine" position? If soldiers from the 1850s were using it , I would assume Sharpshooters in the 1860s might have.
     
  13. Sep 22, 2019 #53

    ResearchPress

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    With regards to the question of:
    I don’t believe it was ‘designed’ for the back (or supine) position. I’ve noted above some of the advantages that Davidson cited of the telescope sight (from his Patent). In a letter of his to the Ordnance Select Committee in 1860 he discusses the various benefits of the sight, there is no mention at all of the back position - although he does stress the ability to keep the head on the stock when shooting at long range, rather than “with the ordinary sight, the head must be raised far above the stock”. This does not suggest the back position to me.

    How they were used in the field is a different matter, but although not widely read in Civil War sharpshooting I don’t recall evidence of use of the back position. Can anyone quote any contemporary description of this?

    David
     
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  14. Sep 22, 2019 #54

    GREENSWLDE

    GREENSWLDE

    GREENSWLDE

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    Interesting posts about supine, Creedmore and the likes.Seen quite a lot of Volunteers, 2 band & 3 Band,Orginals & Repros in my M/L rifle days from late 60s to 2015. Never seen one with a scope of any kind. Most have the addition of tang mounted Orthoptics. Do note that the Napoleonic period rifleman is taking the recoil with the sling around his right foot. Never seen the 75th Foot arms drill for supine but it must have been in common use.
     
  15. Sep 22, 2019 #55

    Stantheman86

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    Whitworth_-_Malcolm_Scope_-_blog_1400x.progressive.jpg

    Even though I've heard it's tough to use these past 300 yards with the scope elevated.........I really want to have a Malcolm 6x mounted to my Volunteer 2-bander. According to Hi-Lux it can be mounted to any 2-bander with a round barrel and the right diameter (like a Mississippi, "Zouave" , Volunteer or .577 2-bander)
     
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  16. Sep 22, 2019 #56

    Stantheman86

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    A member just sold a scoped P-H Whitworth on the forum, I believe .
     
  17. Sep 23, 2019 #57

    srkmarine1101

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    That pic is freaking cool. I really need to get one of these rifles!
     
  18. Sep 23, 2019 #58

    Stantheman86

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    My Volunteer will look just like that (well a little shorter) with a shorter scope tube extension.

    I use this pic to remind myself that I need to make a point of getting this done....
     
  19. Sep 23, 2019 #59

    Stantheman86

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    There's a P-H Whitworth for sale on the forum boards right now.....having a P-H Volunteer I barely shoot, I can't justify that cost but someone should grab that.

    A Whitworth is one of my "things I need to buy after I handle some life stuff like buying a house" .......if I have to get a Pedersoli then that's fine, but a P-H would be ideal.
     
  20. Sep 24, 2019 #60

    srkmarine1101

    srkmarine1101

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    What’s the advantage of getting a PH over a pendersoli? What kind of accuracy are getting out of your volunteer?
     

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