Pedersoli Springfield 1861 loads?

[ChadVance]

Greetings,

I’m currently awaiting my delivery from DixiGun works of a Pedersoli 1861.

I’m new to the black powder scene but have been shooting/reloading for many years now.

Not being a”caster” or trusting of priveteers, minie rounds are not happing in the near future so I’m looking at patched round balls to start.

Any good starting points would be appreciated. Tnx.

 

[TreeMan]

In my Remington “Zouave” and 2 band enfield 58s ive had very good results with 60-80 gr of 2F. My Zouave has a tight bore so it requires a .562 ball and the enfield uses a .570. Both I use an .015 patch. At 50 yards I can easily pull 1-2 inch groups. You’ll probably have more of an issue with getting the sights to hit to POA than with working up a good load.

 

[dave951]

To make any kind of a valid recommendation you will have to know your actual bore size. Not what it’s marked, not what you’ve been told, not what Dixie says.

Past that, minies aren’t difficult to get to shoot well if you follow a few simple steps knowing that bore size first. Also, use only real black powder. Pyrodex fouling is harder, more corrosive and more abrasive than the real deal. Caps- CCI reenactor caps are garbage, get RWS. There is a great place to get supplies for your gun- Back Creek Gunshop in Winchester, VA.

If you are interested in seeing just what these guns are capable of, come on over to the North South Skirmish Association. We compete with Civil War era arms including live fire competition with artillery. There ain’t a thrill in muzzleloading quite like pulling the string on a cannon with live ammo.

 

[jcs266]

I've always wanted a Pedersoli 1861 Springfield, hope to get one some day. Let us know how things go as you get some time with your new gun.

 

[ChadVance]

In my Remington “Zouave” and 2 band enfield 58s ive had very good results with 60-80 gr of 2F. My Zouave has a tight bore so it requires a .562 ball and the enfield uses a .570. Both I use an .015 patch. At 50 yards I can easily pull 1-2 inch groups. You’ll probably have more of an issue with getting the sights to hit to POA than with working up a good load.

So I thought the same and depending on how everything is assembled I might upgrade with some target sites, but not for some time.

POA shooting is what I’m hoping for but consistency is what Im looking for.

thanks for the help.

 

[ChadVance]

To make any kind of a valid recommendation you will have to know your actual bore size. Not what it’s marked, not what you’ve been told, not what Dixie says.

Past that, minies aren’t difficult to get to shoot well if you follow a few simple steps knowing that bore size first. Also, use only real black powder. Pyrodex fouling is harder, more corrosive and more abrasive than the real deal. Caps- CCI reenactor caps are garbage, get RWS. There is a great place to get supplies for your gun- Back Creek Gunshop in Winchester, VA.

If you are interested in seeing just what these guns are capable of, come on over to the North South Skirmish Association. We compete with Civil War era arms including live fire competition with artillery. There ain’t a thrill in muzzleloading quite like pulling the string on a cannon with live ammo.

So what is the best course of action. Meaning, what seems to work the best? Do I go with an undersized ball and match the bore size with a patch, or over size the bore with a patch, or under size the ball and take up more space with the patch?

Not trying to be an ass hat just looking for a good starting point.
Thanks

 

[dave951]

That's one way to do it and it works for patched round ball. Just get some and experiment with patch thickness, charge weight and lube.

As for sights, most folks don't realize the issue sights were designed around aiming center mass on an opposing soldier. Any hit above the belt buckle point of aim was acceptable. So when I hear guys complain about the sights I just roll eyes.

If you want to experiment with minies, get some from CWBulletman on the Lodgewood site. He's a fellow N-SSA competitor and his minies are good to go.

 

[towgunner11h]

If you have a caliper micrometer you can get a close idea of bore size, then buy some pin gauges off Amazon and get a true measurement.

 

[Stantheman86]

+1 it's going to shoot very high. The repros carry the design features of originals, thus, the rifles were "soldier proof" with a 200 yard zero. These aren't target rifles but can be very accurate .

Honestly buying a "Minie Rifle" like a 61 Springfield but not shooting Minies through it is throughly defeating and reverse engineering the entire reason the '61 Springfield exists but we aren't using these in combat , so have fun with round balls just for range plinking .

That said, Blue Falcon bullets who sells on GunBroker will sell you Sized and Lubed Minies, in various sizes from .575 to .577, in the same box if you prefer , for $25 per 50. That's a great price, honestly. Just message him and tell him you're new to muzzleloading and just got a repro 1861 Springfield and have no way to lube or size and he'll hook you up.

He sized and lubed .451 bullets for my Volunteer rifle before I had the tools to do it myself . Good guy.

Soon you'll get really into it like I did and you'll be making paper cartridges.

 

[Grenadier1758]

So what is the best course of action. Meaning, what seems to work the best? Do I go with an undersized ball and match the bore size with a patch, or over size the bore with a patch, or under size the ball and take up more space with the patch?

Not trying to be an ass hat just looking for a good starting point.
Thanks

What I do when I prepare a starting load with a new barrel of a rifle.

1. Measure the bore diameter for land to land. I don't recall if the Springfield has an even number of lands and grooves. Much easier to measure if you have an even number of lands. According to Pedersoli, you have a three groove barrel. The suggested Minié is 0.577". I'm going to guess that the land to land diameter is 0.579".

2. Measure the groove diameter and determine the groove depth. In your Springfield, the grooves may be shallow for the Minié ball.

3. What I start with is a ball that is 0.010" less than the land diameter. Based on the Pedersoli info, I would start with a 0.570" ball. I am going to speculate that the groove depth is 0.006".

4. Time for patch selection. There is 0.010" of groove depth and windage between ball and land. For a modestly tight load, I would select 0.015" pillow ticking patches. For an easy to start without a short starter, I would select a 0.562" ball and 0.018" cotton drill patching.

5. Patch lube is the final selection. Lets keep this simple and use the cheap cooking oil or oil based soap at the Dollar store. The soap can ve used for cleaning ater shooting.

You oversize the patch and ball combination. The patch will compress to seal off the bore to slow burn through from firing. Some find a very thick patch that carries a lot of lubricant to keep fouling soft is a good choice.

There are just so many choices available to us and load development that coming up with the optimal load on the first choice is so unlikely. Enjoy the load development.

 

[Capnball]

Greetings,

I’m currently awaiting my delivery from DixiGun works of a Pedersoli 1861.

I’m new to the black powder scene but have been shooting/reloading for many years now.

Not being a”caster” or trusting of priveteers, minie rounds are not happing in the near future so I’m looking at patched round balls to start.

Any good starting points would be appreciated. Tnx.

Beautiful gun! Shoots like a lazer. I shoot 60 grains FFG and a greased minnie. I've fired patched balls to but the minnie's really show what that gun can do. Mike the barrel and the minnie's for size. You don't want to cram an over sized ball down the barrel. Some guys weigh the barrel also for uniformity to. I use 50/50 beeswax/crisco poured hot in a shallow pan, bullets straight up and fill the pan to the top groove on the minnie. When the wax cools to touch, pull the bullets straight up and out, I use long smooth jaw needle nose pliers. They are ready to shoot. You should be able to push the ball down into the barrel with your thumb. Ram it home!
I shoot an original 1861 Bridesberg (virtually identical to the springfield)
Have fun, post some pictures.
Neil
PS I gave a Pedersoli Kentucky Flintlock also. I'm a fan.

 

[Stantheman86]

Probably should have bought a .54 Mississippi repro if you were dead set on a military rifle that shoots patched round ball, because that's exactly what a .54 Mississippi is.

That 1861 may, by sheer chance, drive tacks with patched .570 balls or it may shoot buckshot patterns.

I'd honestly suggest just getting some presized and lubed Minie balls from the guy on GunBroker but I'm sure 10 people will comment after my comment and my advice will go ignored

 

[ord sgt]

Caps- CCI reenactor caps are garbage, get RWS. There is a great place to get supplies for your gun- Back Creek Gunshop in Winchester, VA.

Great place for supplies. Bought powder there many times when I was a member of the N-SSA.

 

[springfield art]

+1 it's going to shoot very high. The repros carry the design features of originals, thus, the rifles were "soldier proof" with a 200 yard zero. These aren't target rifles but can be very accurate .

Honestly buying a "Minie Rifle" like a 61 Springfield but not shooting Minies through it is throughly defeating and reverse engineering the entire reason the '61 Springfield exists but we aren't using these in combat , so have fun with round balls just for range plinking .

That said, Blue Falcon bullets who sells on GunBroker will sell you Sized and Lubed Minies, in various sizes from .575 to .577, in the same box if you prefer , for $25 per 50. That's a great price, honestly. Just message him and tell him you're new to muzzleloading and just got a repro 1861 Springfield and have no way to lube or size and he'll hook you up.

He sized and lubed .451 bullets for my Volunteer rifle before I had the tools to do it myself . Good guy.

Soon you'll get really into it like I did and you'll be making paper cartridges. View attachment 55485

NSSA guys in general are the 'go to' for CW weaponry. A repository of all things cap-n-ball.

 

[springfield art]

What I do when I prepare a starting load with a new barrel of a rifle.

1. Measure the bore diameter for land to land. I don't recall if the Springfield has an even number of lands and grooves. Much easier to measure if you have an even number of lands. According to Pedersoli, you have a three groove barrel. The suggested Minié is 0.577". I'm going to guess that the land to land diameter is 0.579".

2. Measure the groove diameter and determine the groove depth. In your Springfield, the grooves may be shallow for the Minié ball.

3. What I start with is a ball that is 0.010" less than the land diameter. Based on the Pedersoli info, I would start with a 0.570" ball. I am going to speculate that the groove depth is 0.006".

4. Time for patch selection. There is 0.010" of groove depth and windage between ball and land. For a modestly tight load, I would select 0.015" pillow ticking patches. For an easy to start without a short starter, I would select a 0.562" ball and 0.018" cotton drill patching.

5. Patch lube is the final selection. Lets keep this simple and use the cheap cooking oil or oil based soap at the Dollar store. The soap can ve used for cleaning ater shooting.

You oversize the patch and ball combination. The patch will compress to seal off the bore to slow burn through from firing. Some find a very thick patch that carries a lot of lubricant to keep fouling soft is a good choice.

There are just so many choices available to us and load development that coming up with the optimal load on the first choice is so unlikely. Enjoy the load development.

I've often said, muzzleloading is as much Art as Science!

 

[Grenadier1758]

I've often said, muzzleloading is as much Art as Science!

If you want art, then try a flint lock.

 

[ChadVance]

Probably should have bought a .54 Mississippi repro if you were dead set on a military rifle that shoots patched round ball, because that's exactly what a .54 Mississippi is.

That 1861 may, by sheer chance, drive tacks with patched .570 balls or it may shoot buckshot patterns.

I'd honestly suggest just getting some presized and lubed Minie balls from the guy on GunBroker but I'm sure 10 people will comment after my comment and my advice will go ignored

Minie’s are on my list to get, and I’ll look for that “sampler pack” a few people have discussed.

Im on board with the Minies but availability is my concern with them. Eventually I would enjoy casting my own but for poking holes at 100 yards to get the hang of things I think roud ball will build experience and not drain my wallet as much.

Not unnotice, only useless advice is that which is not shared.

 

[Capnball]

If you want art, then try a flint lock.

I got both, love my flintlock, but nothing like my 1861! Two completely different types of art.

 

[BadDaditood]

the progressive rifling in my 61 Springfield is made for minies... Literally.
I’ve two other repro muskets with standard Rifling that are pretty good with prbs but horrible with the 8 or 10 styles of minie I’ve tried.
Does your Pedersoli have progressive rifling?

 

[Stantheman86]

The only repro that has Progressive Rifling are the Birmingham produced Parker-Hale Enfields.

Italian repros do not use it because it's extra production steps and would cost more.

I'm probably wrong but I recall reading that the 1863 Springfield doesn't have Progressive Rifling because the Ordnance Dept thought the extra steps didn't justify any real improvements.

I assume my original 1861 Springfields have Progressive rifling but again I'm not sure all of them used it. It seems like an Enfield feature.