Pedersoli Scout .32 cal Accuracy Help

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Leadriver

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Well the results are in, Ballistol and water mix “dry” didn’t work. Here are the two targets I tried. There kind of hard to interpret but I used shapes to show groups. I tried everything from 15 to 45 grains. Seems like the 40 and 45 grains grouped the most consistently. I got about 30 shots in before my muzzleloader started to miss fire cause it was getting really dirty in the nipple and powder drum. My shots were taken as follows, shot then wiped with damp patch of Ballistol and water, then dry patch. I don’t know what else to do fellas I’ve about had it and am ready to give up. I don’t want to order TOW mink oil cause it’s gunna cost almost 20.00 for a tin with shipping. Too much to just try something. I have a kitchen full of stuff and an empty cap tin I could use. But I don’t want nothing messy and that good for cold weather too. Ballistol water mix does do an absolutely fantastic job of cleaning black powder though so I guess that’s one plus.
 

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You MUST eliminate the lubrication issue.

Keep it simple. Have you vaseline petroleum jelly?
If so warm it so it melts. Now add a vegetable oil. Guess it and let it cool. If it's consistency is agreeable to you use it.
Don't be shy. Get plenty on the patch.
Remember, you want plenty on the patch for the pressure to drive it forward between patch and barrel!
The more you shoot the more you are polishing the barrel too.
 

Leadriver

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You MUST eliminate the lubrication issue.

Keep it simple. Have you vaseline petroleum jelly?
If so warm it so it melts. Now add a vegetable oil. Guess it and let it cool. If it's consistency is agreeable to you use it.
Don't be shy. Get plenty on the patch.
Remember, you want plenty on the patch for the pressure to drive it forward between patch and barrel!
The more you shoot the more you are polishing the barrel too.
Won’t petroleum jelly turn into a black goo??? I had that happen once when I accidentally bought felt for wads that wasn’t real felt. I NEVER want to have to clean a mess like that up again.
 

Leadriver

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BeesWax/Lambs Tallow…real good general purpose lube. I use it in winter when hunting.

During the summer I use Moose Milk as a lube.
Really didn’t want to use anything waxy, makes for long clean up for me. I tried veggi oil and no luck. Also wonderlube with no luck there either. I have Thompson center stuff like bore butter but I don’t like that stuff except for wiping my barrels on the outside and My stock. I was pondering using Crisco cause I used a wad. Never used that stuff but have a whole can here at the house.
 

Rock Home Isle

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I’ve never noticed any difference in cleanup using beeswax as a lube, or mixed with something as a lube.

I’ve noticed that with the smaller calibres, they can have preferences on types of lube, or even amount of lube.

My little .32 calibre Pedersoli seems like moose milk and a fairly damp patch, it’ll shoot 1” groups at 50 yrds, with 32 grains of fffg.

My .40 calibre Kibler, likes a damp or dry-ish patch, groups seem to open up if the patch is wet
 

Leadriver

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Not trying to be a smart A$$, But have you tried having Someone else shoot a group. That ELIMINATES 1 element. If your buddy gets the same result , Then it's the Rifle. If not then maybe the gun isn't fitting you right or something.
no nobody else has shot it but I’m positive it’s not me, the thing shoots like a 22lr. As far as for the gun fits me really well, better than most I’ve had.
 

Leadriver

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I just mixed up a quick batch of stumpy’s moose snot. I had to substitute the caster for canola oil. I’ll try that tomorrow and see how it works
 

Leadriver

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Take a good clear image of the crown and post it. Something like what I posted above…

And if you can, what does the inside of the bore look like? Can you post an image of that?…It’s nigh-on impossible to diagnose things unless we’re all sitting around the same table and looking it over, holding it, checking to see if everything is snug and tight. :cool:
Srry I tried but my phone won’t take pics like your does. You must have the latest wizz banger out there. Tried to upload a video and it won’t do that either. My crown has a very small lead in. Nothing like what yours has. There appears to be no burs or damage that I can detect on the borescope and it passed the q tip test also. A new crown definitely wouldn’t hurt but prob wouldn’t do anything for accuracy at this point. Maybe this winter I’ll disassemble and re-crown like yours. But squirrel season is in and I antsy to get into the woods.
 
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Won’t petroleum jelly turn into a black goo??? I had that happen once when I accidentally bought felt for wads that wasn’t real felt. I NEVER want to have to clean a mess like that up again.
I suggested that thinking you don't have beeswax. Beeswax and olive oil is my favourite. Petroleum jelly is not the best but probably the best petroleum products a black powder user can get away with.

If not wanting to use a greasy lube in a muzzleloader for the sake of the cleaning regime something is very very wrong!
There are many benefits to using an animal and or vegetable fat based lubricant.
Not only does it aid the patch but it also forms a barrier that successfully absorbs the salts produced from burning black powder or pyrodex and isolates it from the barrel.
It also keeps the fouling soft allowing continuous shooting.
Using such also means you can sleep easy if for whatever reason you can not clean your rifle for a day or two.

I know not of any rifle using lead cast bullets with black powder not requiring a greasy lubricant, do you?

There is two other possible mechanical reasons for the poor accuracy.
#1 is bedding, or rather, the lack of it.
The breach is supported by the tang and there is a void under the barrel. The breach end of the barrel is not snug against the stock
#2 is the nipple drum is pressing down on the lock plate.
Best wishes.
 
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Leadriver, You have not commented on the trigger pull ,if you have ,I missed it. An inconsistant or heavy trigger pull will String your group to the right as seen in your targets. If you are just using center of the top pad of your finger and concentrate on not knowing when the trigger will break. You may just need the trigger slickend up.....But if there is any DOUBT in your mind as to wheather you can do it youself, Get someone EXPIERIECED to do it.....Be Safe >>>Wally
 
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Leadriver, Another thing came to mind. Now I learned this as it pertains to Archery, But given the somewhat slow loading process of muzzel loaders it may be helpful. As you are frustated, Wits end, etc. It ain't gonna hurt to try. I've read a bit on Fred Bear and his teaching for shooters. His technique was top possible score = 99. First Arrow Bulls eye=90 pts. Second arrow Bulls eye = 9 pts ,top score 99. 2 shots that's it , you count the concentrick rings 8-7-6-etc.or 80-70-60 . You get the Idea.
The Rationale as it pertains to arc.& M/L is that you Usually get 1 shot , if you are lucky enough to get a second good. I would fire a fouling shot. then,1 for score ,reload at your normal pace fire #2. That's it. check score. Fred Bear said that when preparing for a hunt , he would fire 2 arrows a day for a couple of weeks. His reasoning was, you seldom get 3 shots , and in practice the more shooting you do ,the more Stress & fatigue you put on different muscle groups. If it was Me in your shoes, I'd check my trigger..fine or fix it, Then start the fore mentioned routine. At this point, It worth a try..GOOD LUCK.....Be Safe>>>>>>>>>>Wally
 
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Leadriver, Another thing came to mind. Now I learned this as it pertains to Archery, But given the somewhat slow loading process of muzzel loaders it may be helpful. As you are frustated, Wits end, etc. It ain't gonna hurt to try. I've read a bit on Fred Bear and his teaching for shooters. His technique was top possible score = 99. First Arrow Bulls eye=90 pts. Second arrow Bulls eye = 9 pts ,top score 99. 2 shots that's it , you count the concentrick rings 8-7-6-etc.or 80-70-60 . You get the Idea.
The Rationale as it pertains to arc.& M/L is that you Usually get 1 shot , if you are lucky enough to get a second good. I would fire a fouling shot. then,1 for score ,reload at your normal pace fire #2. That's it. check score. Fred Bear said that when preparing for a hunt , he would fire 2 arrows a day for a couple of weeks. His reasoning was, you seldom get 3 shots , and in practice the more shooting you do ,the more Stress & fatigue you put on different muscle groups. If it was Me in your shoes, I'd check my trigger..fine or fix it, Then start the fore mentioned routine. At this point, It worth a try..GOOD LUCK.....Be Safe>>>>>>>>>>Wally
I do similar with my rifles.
Every now and then I will take a shot at an inanimate target. If it's good I call it good.
For reference only, below is an off hand shot just to check all is well.
IMG_20220725_194101.jpg
 

Leadriver

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Leadriver, You have not commented on the trigger pull ,if you have ,I missed it. An inconsistant or heavy trigger pull will String your group to the right as seen in your targets. If you are just using center of the top pad of your finger and concentrate on not knowing when the trigger will break. You may just need the trigger slickend up.....But if there is any DOUBT in your mind as to wheather you can do it youself, Get someone EXPIERIECED to do it.....Be Safe >>>Wally
Trigger is very good, double triggers with set trigger set to where I like it. The fred bear is a different approach that I’ll for sure keep in mind
 
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Leadriver

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I suggested that thinking you don't have beeswax. Beeswax and olive oil is my favourite. Petroleum jelly is not the best but probably the best petroleum products a black powder user can get away with.

If not wanting to use a greasy lube in a muzzleloader for the sake of the cleaning regime something is very very wrong!
There are many benefits to using an animal and or vegetable fat based lubricant.
Not only does it aid the patch but it also forms a barrier that successfully absorbs the salts produced from burning black powder or pyrodex and isolates it from the barrel.
It also keeps the fouling soft allowing continuous shooting.
Using such also means you can sleep easy if for whatever reason you can not clean your rifle for a day or two.

I know not of any rifle using lead cast bullets with black powder not requiring a greasy lubricant, do you?

There is two other possible mechanical reasons for the poor accuracy.
#1 is bedding, or rather, the lack of it.
The breach is supported by the tang and there is a void under the barrel. The breach end of the barrel is not snug against the stock
#2 is the nipple drum is pressing down on the lock plate.
Best wishes.
I shoulda been more clear it’s not the greasy lubed so much but ones with a lot of wax in them. In my .50 it isn’t such a big deal but the little .32 is a bear to clean wax build up out of the barrel. They don’t make a .32 brush that I have found that fits. There all just a little too big, they are hard to start and usally the bristles get bent over coming back up. I never checked the bedding cause everything seemed to fit really well when I put it together. I did check the drum and there’s plenty of clearance between that and the lock. I would have to get some of that inlay black and if I’m gunna do that I might aswell give the rifle a new crown while it’s outta the stock for fitting.
 
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I shoulda been more clear it’s not the greasy lubed so much but ones with a lot of wax in them. In my .50 it isn’t such a big deal but the little .32 is a bear to clean wax build up out of the barrel. They don’t make a .32 brush that I have found that fits. There all just a little too big, they are hard to start and usally the bristles get bent over coming back up. I never checked the bedding cause everything seemed to fit really well when I put it together. I did check the drum and there’s plenty of clearance between that and the lock. I would have to get some of that inlay black and if I’m gunna do that I might aswell give the rifle a new crown while it’s outta the stock for fitting.
If you do lift the barrel out you can use strips of canvass under the breech for a few inches and note if the tang still sits down as it should. If it takes some canvass grease it a little and leave it there. Aim for a little compression of the canvass via the tang screw. Some can be added under the tang if required.

With a tiny 32 I would not use a wire brush. Possibly a .280" one but only to carry a cotton patch.
A .280 or .308 Jag would be my choice and I would use hot water. Enough to make the barrel that hot that I could not touch it at the breech end especially but before that I use strips off a disposable wet kitchen wipe. That dissolves most the crud. The hot water then lifts the oils and waxes. I pour it in with breech sealed and tip it out. Repeat until it runs clean. By now the barrel is hot.
Run a couple of dry patches and pump a lot of air through the nipple onto a tissue leave it to dry itself but whilst still warm lube the bore for protection.
Best wishes.
 

Leadriver

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I was at the grocery store today since I wasn’t able to get to the range. I happened to come by Lard the brand is ARMOUR. Apparently it is self stable for 1 year. However when I got home I read the ingredients and seen a few things that may concern me. They were the citric acid and hydrogen. The consistency is thick and creamy as best I can describe. I wonder if I can use this either by itself or mixed with beeswax? Maybe just melt it by itself and soak pre cut strips in? I don’t know if melting it would change its properties and if it would solidify again. I used pure lard years ago and it was really stiff compared to this stuff. Opinions?
 

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