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Pedersoli brown bess

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Actually the Miroku Bess are LESS accurate than the Pedersoli, with the Pedersoli inaccurate too. The damaged trigger guard on the Miroku Bess is the problem. Folks give Miroku points for using "TOWER" on their lock instead of "Grice"... it's poorly stamped as is the crown on the lock so that too is a problem for the Miroku.

Miroku made Bess, being Japanese so without a proofed barrel, had the same comments made about them as the India made guns do today. Over time, with the Miroku frim making barrels for a very respected modern gun company, and the fact that their Bess have stood the test of time, especially the locks, the rep has changed. They work great and take a pounding in the field.

There is absolutely NO collectability factor for Pedersoli nor Miroku repro Bess muskets....not from what I've seen.....

LD
The modern Miroku repro of the 1861 Springfield Rifled Musket (Civil War) has a reputation of being close to the originals internally; the flash pathway is more reliable than the Italian repros. BTW, Miroku makes whiz-bang modern guns for Browning, etc. They love guns in Japan, but laws force them to sell accurate non-firing replicas. (Miroku no longer makes the M1861 repro; out of production for a number of years.)
 
$850 would be for one in pristine condition...., without a bayonet.

The problem is the condition varies quite a bit. I normally won't buy one for more than $750 and that includes the shipping.

Some can be rather ragged, having been used for decades as reenactor arms, and need a lot of restoration and won't go for more than $550 plus shipping.

On the other hand some have had some custom work done on them, and could go for $1000, but they are very rare indeed.

LD
Re-enactors are known to abuse muskets; not everyone, of course, but experienced enactors all tell of the common practice of not cleaning muskets after an event, then showing up next time with a crusty, unreliable musket. I saw it commonly during the Rev War Bi-Cen, and CW enactors will tell the same thing.
 
I just looked at Cabelas and a New one can be had for $999. though you can't order it online. A used one I would think 650-750 in really nice shape. I'd ask at least that for the one I have.
Not a bad price, considering I've seen the "list" price on Pedersoli Besses at $1400. Maybe the market and demand caused prices to go down. "Supply and Demand".
 
From my understanding is that they are more (but not completely) historically accurate than Pedersolis...same for the Charlevilles.
Because the Japs make nice stuff! Every thing about them is superb of course it comes with a cost. They are all furniture grade so nice some might not want to shoot them! I do But I don’t share them with my son he can have them when I’m pushing daisies
 
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The cabelas price was in store only. I looked at Dixiegunworks and others and if they are in stock they are going for retail. $1525!
 
Because the Japs make nice stuff! Every thing about them is superb of course it comes with a cost. They are all furniture grade so nice some might not want to shoot them! I do But I don’t share them with my son he can have them when I’m pushing daisies
You mean the Japanese? Yeah. That's what I thought you meant to say. *ahem*

wm
 
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ODD...,
I've seen Older Pedersoli Bess accept new locks from Pedersoli, and drop right in. No size difference.
Stocks are identical
The older ones often have a thinner barrel, which makes them a few ounces lighter.
I've never seen an older Pedersoli go anywhere near a new Bess price. I've seen folks ASK for that much, but not seen them sell for that.

And Miroku Bess selling for upwards of $1700? Again I've seen folks ASK for such prices...not the same as actually selling for such a price. I suppose there are foolish folks that might pay that.

I regularly buy and sell both. I buy and then work on the guns to bring them back to better working condition, then resell them. So yes, when I'm bidding against a person who is going to put the musket to personal use, they can go a bit higher than myself, and get one with shipping at around $900.

Most folks that I've encountered Won't buy a Bess for $900 or higher when they can drop another $150 and get a factory new Bess under warranty

LD

ive got three pedersoli locks two from the 1970s and one current, theyre not the same size and the current lock will not drop in to my 1976 pedersoli stock. The older lock mainspring is totally different as is the frizzen spring and the plate is larger.
 
ive got three pedersoli locks two from the 1970s and one current, theyre not the same size and the current lock will not drop in to my 1976 pedersoli stock. The older lock mainspring is totally different as is the frizzen spring and the plate is larger.

I don't know about most of the other things, but I can confirm the extensive enough change in mainsprings between my 1976 and 1999 Pedersoli besses. So much they can't be interchanged.

Gus
 
Because the Japs make nice stuff! Look at Browning Rifles I have a 7mm08 BLR Look at today’s Winchester rifles I have an 1873 and a 32 special 1894 .beautiful fully functional unlike a Uberties 1873 lever rifle that always needs tweeking. Every thing about them is superb of course it comes with a cost. They are all furniture grade so nice some might not want to shoot them! I do But I don’t share them with my son he can have them when I’m pushing daisies
be polite & respectable to ones race..
 
aharbfwgb myet y.,(/7 TV
ive got three pedersoli locks two from the 1970s and one current, theyre not the same size and the current lock will not drop in to my 1976 pedersoli stock. The older lock mainspring is totally different as is the frizzen spring and the plate is larger.
 

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As I said, odd as the ones I was dealing with dropped right in, BUT...,
The serial number that gives the "age" only really tells you when the barrel was stamped. No telling when the rest of the musket was made, and the lock aren't dated either. Could sit upon the shelves for decades and nobody would know.

LD
 
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As I said, odd as the ones I was dealing with dropped right in, BUT...,
The serial number that gives the "age" only really tells you when the barrel was stamped. No telling when the rest of the musket was made, and the lock aren't dated either. Could sit upon the shelves for decades and nobody would know.

LD

Lots of changes from the 1976 Bicentential Pedersoli Bess to the one in current production, the current production changed in the 1980’s (Jim Casco, & Paul Ackerman can confirm this).

The lock changed the most, with the plate being reduced in size from 6.8 to 6.6. The width of the tail is slightly smaller too. The sear changed shape from a traditional bess sear to a downward bending sear, most commonly seen on some other pedersoli rifles. The mainspring changed over from a forged mainspring to a casted mainspring, the screw eye moved closer to the pin and the bottom leaf was shortened.

The Tumbler’s full cock notch was cut forward more, reducing the throw, this was done because so many of the older mainsprings broke on the bottom leaf. Too much stress on the bottom leaf, I’m guessing these are 1095 springs.

The Frizzen spring shape changed with a more tapered design currently and the current spring is less accurate than the old Frizzen spring.

The lock bolts changed too, the rear bolt is M6x1, the forward bolt is M5 X. .8, the current model uses two M6x1 bolts.

The lock mortise on the current model by pedersoli was increased, as you can see the trigger guard pin is lugged through the bottom panel, on my older bess its lugged through the lock mortise, larger plate requires this. the tail of the lock mortise was made smaller to accommodate the new lock. The current lock plate will leave around .50 mm gaps along the tail and the bolster is too thin. The width is also narrower, causing more gaps along the upper portion.

the stock is different along the forearm, its much leaner than the current production and I think there’s just a small amount of added drop in the butt to the older model, nothing I’d call signficant but I do believe its why Dunlap offers two types of replacement stocks, one with extra drop.
 
ODD...,
I've seen Older Pedersoli Bess accept new locks from Pedersoli, and drop right in. No size difference.
Stocks are identical
The older ones often have a thinner barrel, which makes them a few ounces lighter.
I've never seen an older Pedersoli go anywhere near a new Bess price. I've seen folks ASK for that much, but not seen them sell for that.

And Miroku Bess selling for upwards of $1700? Again I've seen folks ASK for such prices...not the same as actually selling for such a price. I suppose there are foolish folks that might pay that.

I regularly buy and sell both. I buy and then work on the guns to bring them back to better working condition, then resell them. So yes, when I'm bidding against a person who is going to put the musket to personal use, they can go a bit higher than myself, and get one with shipping at around $900.

Most folks that I've encountered Won't buy a Bess for $900 or higher when they can drop another $150 and get a factory new Bess under warranty

LD

I sold my Miroku bess for $1565 on gunbroker, and it sold at the ‘buy now’ option back in 2018. It was an older one of course, with a .72 bore. The barrel was very light, almost less than 4lbs. The stock was birch, and wouldn’t take stain very well. A nice hunting piece and very reliable musket, i was going to restock it with a pattern by Dave Keck but decided to move on from the project.

There’s a Lyman marked Miroku bess on gunbroker now auctioning around $1200, I’m guessing it will close around 1300. Looks like it might be one of the earlier ones stock in walnut.

I’ve seen a few sell for 1700 and 2100, the 2100 was stocked in cherry from navy arms and was in the incorrect .69 caliber bore.

I can’t explain the current demand for Miroku muskets, but people are willing to pay for them and pay a lot extra. But it seems to be of a collectibility or commodity desire.
 

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A friend of mine asked me to find out what a used but really nice Pedersoli 2nd pattern brown bess was worth . He is thinking about selling one of his . Any help on a fair price would be appreciated.
I just bought a used one that's only had about 75 rounds through it for $750. It came with about 150 round balls and a pound of powder.
 
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