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Pedersoli Brown Bess carbine

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hailcaesar

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I see in some Pedersoli advertisement they say the Brown Bess carbine 30.5" barrel was an Indian trade gun. Was there such a thing? If so what years would this musket represent? Could it be used for as a musket for the Minute men or for American militia during the Battle of New Orleans. Ditch the carbine and go long?
 
No the carbine can't be used for militia or minute men. The bayonet was the weapon that decided the battle and a 30" barrel just isn't going to get it. The reason we shouldn't let the people erase our history is that people like the Pedersoli ad men will rewrite it to suit their agenda. :(
 
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I believe the India pattern Land Pattern Sea service ran 37" brl there where some shortened besses to fire grenades, Next come various Cavalry, Artillery, Dragoon & Sargents carbines at 37" the first pattern Royal Foresters ran 30"then 28' Elliots ( & later Royal Foresters) any shorter where not meant to take B nets .Nor where any that where' home stocked ' full wood to the muzzle obviously. All' Carbines' being carbine bore 16 bore not full 75 or so musket .even the 42"brl 1760 Light Infantry is still a 'carbine ' By the' nature' of its issue. Whether you would call them' Besses ' ? certainly same family & stable . I may have missed some its from recollection . There where no doubt oddities & you get variant Commercial arms . and its not unknown for muskets being shortened for various reasons but none likely to be for the Indians . What traders might do with surplus arms who is to say but most trade guns seem to follow a distinct style . What traders peddled in Africa & other markets ?? No saying . There where over three million Besses made of India pattern and for years after the surplus Besses went every where a dog barked. Many to New Zealand . The Maori took to them with pickles and about polished off many rival tribes in the course of about 30 years of intermitant war . & the New Zealand Company brought many for trade or defence . along with 1796 Pattern Dragoon sabers & B' nets , Axes, ect (And you thought the West was wild!) Any way I digress I do Ime getting old! .
Regards Rudyard
 
Hi,
Trade guns were commercially made and not ordnance produced guns unless old surplus muskets and carbines were sold to civilians and some of those may have found their way into the trade gun market. A militia soldier before and after the Rev War was required to have a full length musket with bayonet. By the War of 1812, the militia system in the US states was mostly a joke and they were often no more than social clubs.

dave
 
I've mentioned the Royal Foresters they where Dragoons I believe and their arms classed as 'Carbines ' . Whether its correct to call them' Besse's' as in full Musket configuration I left to the reader .I once shot the UK MLAGB Brown Bess match at Bisley Short range Champs with a carbine bore gun Ide got up for re enactments. They did except such period ' Besse's if you like. So I suppose if MLAGB endorsed the carbines that would put them in the Musket grouping . I was at the Southern counties patched ball group Rendesvous of Cosistrike's he being' Booshway '.but went up to Bisley It was a deep end, one song entry but I enjoyed it & got a bronze . Of the Royal Foresters I've made no study but I think they where a light Dragoon company .
Regards Rudyard
 
Thanks for your info Rudyard. I believe I will get one of these "trade guns" or 'Carbines". For what I want I think it will suit my use. This will be my first flintlock. Now to find one at a fair price. I guess it will be a while before Italy starts production for export.
 
3 rd pattern had 39 inch barrels
The India pattern musket came in with a 39"barrel of Musket bore with the East India company's 'Lawrences' pattern c1760 followed by the' Cootes' Pattern then the' Windus 'pattern at the 39" barrels .
.Ordnance that is Govt had 42" barrels but adopted the more expedient' Due to the war with France ' India Pattern, 39" .' Carbines went by bore size not length The 1760 light Infantry 'carbine' had a.42" barrel but classed as a' carbine' since it took the carbine ball . You can get' musket bore carbines' & 'reduced musket bore' (12bore ), and classed then as ' Carbines 'according to their branch of service and date .If by now your clear with all this nomenclature youv'e done well as it is confuseing .! Regards Rudyard
 
I see in some Pedersoli advertisement they say the Brown Bess carbine 30.5" barrel was an Indian trade gun. Was there such a thing? If so what years would this musket represent? Could it be used for as a musket for the Minute men or for American militia during the Battle of New Orleans. Ditch the carbine and go long?

Both Miroku and Pedersoli sold a brown bess carbine, which they both felt would cover a broad range of specific auxiliary pattern muskets such as a light infantry fusil, or sergeants carbine. It was their way of satisfying a very limited demand for something shorter than 42”.

Personally i would go for a trade gun or chambers officers fusil, the lower caliber / gauge offers a much better grouping with a lighter weight gun.
 

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