PC/HC subforum

Discussion in 'Forum Announcements & Support' started by Black Hand, Jan 17, 2019.

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  1. Jan 17, 2019 #1

    Black Hand

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    I propose a specific subforum for people interested in the HC/PC aspects of this hobby.

    A place where the librarians/academics/historians could go, discuss the fine details of history and not get attacked each time them mentioned the dreaded words historical- or period-correct or where posters with a genuine interest in the historical details could go for information and help. Not a place for those who are of the opinion that "I don't care about PC/HC and neither should you...", rather a place where ideas can be exchanged freely, bounded by the limits imposed by history/historical accuracy and supported by evidence.

    From what I have observed, those who have a considerable knowledge of history have stopped or reduced their posting because of these constant attacks or historical apathy. These people are an exceptional resource to us all and it would be a pity for them to disappear.
     
    Shot deer, tenngun, Pete G and 6 others like this.
  2. Jan 18, 2019 #2

    Crewdawg445

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    Indeed a area that is fitting to this forum and one that would be of true spirit in terms of keeping the traditional aspect of muzzleloading and history alive.
     
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  3. Jan 18, 2019 #3

    Moleman

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    I for one am all in. Such a subforum would be an invaluable resource for those that want to learn and become more informed even if they don't participate in the discussions. With the vast knowledge and experience of many on this site it would be a treasure trove of great information.
     
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  4. Jan 18, 2019 #4

    Juice Jaws

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    I don't really see a need for a sub forum, to me we have a wide range to chose from. I counted about 59 or 60 sub-forums. As if one more sub-forum well make us all get along. And as for people not posting because they get attack for being historical correct, I think its the other way around, because some poor new guy gets all happy because he just brought a CVA or TC rifle and gets jump on because he brought some piece of s#%t off the self and did not buy first time out a hand made $2000.00 gun. I think a lot of new guys get turn off by the HC-PC crowd than the other way around. Just some thoughts from a old buckskinner.
     
  5. Jan 18, 2019 #5

    necchi

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    We already have several sections for just that.
    The only time there is real conflict is when someone fully vested in HC/PC steps outside of those sections with a personal need to "correct" someone posting about an item or issue when that person is not vested in HC/PC.
    I willingly grant that in many sections new comers can be a bit miss-guided. I mean lawn mower blades, bench grinders and boot lace don't generally make a good English Scalper, and with issues as heinous as that members are corrected across the board,
    ,,but it always ends up with the same old toilet paper and pick up trucks arguments.
    Again, there are already sections for HC/PC, and we as "heritage" members (us olde guy's) can help guide new members to those sections and those archives,, we can stear members that seek only HC/PC to those sections or members that have done the studies that can assist them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  6. Jan 18, 2019 #6

    Black Hand

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    Having posted in a number of forums and been attacked in every one, could you enlighten me WHICH of the several sections these might be? Just curious, because I haven't been in ANY subforum where I actually find people generally receptive to HC/PC with many openly hostile. Yes - there are a few individuals, but overall, nothing but grief for those of us who care about what did happen, what was available and how things were done.
     
  7. Jan 18, 2019 #7

    necchi

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    Uhm, Ok? I see plenty,, across the board. I see it as selective, not binary.
     
  8. Jan 18, 2019 #8

    Carbon 6

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    Well obviously!
    If we examine the reverse, the HC/PC crowd isn't turned off by newbies, heck they're here to help.

    Whereas the constant arguments, and negative comments propagated by the Anti-HC/PC crowd really turn off many new members.

    It is beyond hypocritical to prejudge what a newbie might or might not be interested in. They make their own determinations of interest when information is presented. Then they can watch, participate or move on. This is the fundamental basis of freedom. It is not up to us to make determinations by censuring or segregating information. Especially CORRECT information.

    HC/PC encompasses every aspect of this forum, It is the foundation upon which it is built. It is the one singular aspect that differentiates it from other muzzleloading forums save one, maybe.
     
    Pete G, Crewdawg445 and Coot like this.
  9. Jan 18, 2019 #9

    Coot

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    Very well put.
     
  10. Jan 18, 2019 #10

    necchi

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    Wow, with less then 4 months time on our forum,, You sound as though you've been here much longer.
    Thank you for the compliment.
     
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  11. Jan 18, 2019 #11

    Black Hand

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    It's not a matter of how long you've been on the forum or how many posts you have, rather what you know and the caliber of your information. Quantity vs. quality - quality always wins...
     
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  12. Jan 18, 2019 #12

    Zonie

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    We already have such an area on the forum.

    Starting about half way down the main index page, see the area titled "Reencting".
    Below that heading there are a large number of sub forums specifically made for discussing things that are PC and HC.
    This entire area is reserved for Historical and Period correct discussions and the moderators will not allow anti-PC/HC comments there.

    In the General Reenacting Discussion area any number of posts about any number of subjects which don't fit the more specific sub sections listed below it can be discussed without fear of comments from people who are not interested in PC and HC discussions.

    In the Historically Accurate Equipment area firearms, knives and much more can be discussed without interference by uninterested people.

    The areas I've seen where the PC/HC people and those who are less interested in those matters come into conflict is in the areas in the index which are above the Reenacting section.

    Although many of our members who are very interested in PC/HC things are trying to help newcomers and others who post outside of the Reenacting areas understand how their equipment is not Period Correct or Historically Correct, some of them point these things out even when the "correctness" of the item in the post is not the subject.

    When this is done without regard to the original questions in a post, others see it as an attack on the item or the person who started the topic.
     
    Pete G, azmntman and arcticap like this.
  13. Jan 18, 2019 #13

    Carbon 6

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    I agree with you 100%, it's a perception problem propagated by a lack of emotional intelligence. The individual inability to differentiate between a critique and criticism.
     
  14. Jan 18, 2019 #14

    waarp8nt

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    I'm somewhat new here and while I do agree intelligence or lack there of sets the tone for many arguments. Without facial expressions, hand gestures, tone of voice or volume of voice, all of which the internet cannot provide. Many HC/PC folks simply come off as know it all asses in the way they present their post. Whether it be lack of intelligence by the random reader or lack of communication skill of the "HC/PC gods". I personally think this is hands down the best overall muzzleloader forum and as adults we could put our childish differences aside. I'm 48 years old and likely a young man in the traditional muzzleloader community. We have all seen the numbers of the NMLRA drop do in the inevitably of old age. I personally hate to see numbers drop of petty differences.
     
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  15. Jan 18, 2019 #15

    Black Hand

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    My experience has indicated that the way a post by a PC/HC person is take very much depends on the tone of the responses (and past responses) from those who dislike PC/HC. In other words, the words and the way they are written are utterly irrelevant. We are held hostage by the attitude others hold rather than by the informational content of our post...

    Just asking for a place where we can have discussions others can join knowing the ground-rules before they enter and post/read.
     
  16. Jan 18, 2019 #16

    Crewdawg445

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    What I feel may be appropriate is ensuring new members are familiar with the outlined forum rules. I personally think many new members come here with the assumption this is another anything goes forum in regards to various muzzleloading practices. Many fail to realize and 80% likely don't read these rules or realize there are set time frames in regards to items/ reproduction items that we discuss along with techniques. I for one have gotten very tired of seeing all the modern gadgets, techniques and additions people try to adapt into traditional muzzleloading... Nothing traditional about any of it and it shouldn't be here.

    New members should be made to read the forum rules before posting or using the enabled features contained in the forum. Just a safety measure, that would hopefully get the needle pointing North.

    Outside of members unable to distinguish between a personal attack and criticism which is a personal problem the HC/PC issue will always remain unless there is a dedicated section specifically for it were those concerned with such discussions can navigate through. I understand there are many sections contained within the reenactment areas however there is a vast amount of content unrelated to HC/PC contained there.

    To each there own but I for one agree it would be a nice addition for those of us who do care and were contributions/ constructive criticism are welcome and persecution won't follow.
     
  17. Jan 18, 2019 #17

    Tom A Hawk

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    Well said. We come here for information, to offer knowledge and experiences, enjoy the company of others who share our passion and for entertainment when there is not a single worthwhile thing to watch on television. I have abandoned other forums due to the overbearing "know it all asses" who relish a good argument most of all and simply must have the last word on every topic of discussion. They remind me of my ex wife... :(
     
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  18. Jan 18, 2019 #18

    Carbon 6

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    Waarp8nt, I said "emotional intelligence", not intelligence.
    I think we are all here to learn.




     
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2019
  19. Jan 18, 2019 #19

    waarp8nt

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    You cannot have the one with out the other.
     
  20. Jan 18, 2019 #20

    Carbon 6

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    Illustrative and arguable.
    I would argue that they are not related in that manor. Not contextually.
    However, this is neither the time nor place for us to debate it.
     
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