patchbox,nose cap,ramrod thimble, help

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old ugly

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I built this I Jacob Dickert gun 10 years ago and wasn't brave enough and to impatient to inlet the patchbox, nose cap and thimble. I used the gun as a poor boy. now I am thinking that I should give these installations a go.
could someone give me some nice photos of these items installed on their gun. and maybe a link to some sort of tutorial.
I have no access to a already built gun to view.
thank you for any info
old ugly.
 
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[QUOTE=" maybe a link to some sort of tutorial.
old ugly.[/QUOTE]
YouTube has lots of videos on muzzleloader craftsmanship. Some good and some not. Check them out. Something to think about before installation of any hardward to the stock: Make sure that it conforms to the surface flats and curves, prior to installing. Of course if it doesn't then that is your first step of prep, or it might just be too far out to make it right. On entry thimbles ( entering at forestock) I have gotten myself painted in a corner because the thimble did not fit the difference between the bottom of the forestock and the bottom of the RR groove. That happened when I purchase one versus made my own. (DUMB!) Hope this helps some.Good luck!
Flintlocklar
 

Black Hand

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When installed at the beginning, wood and metal are profiled together so everything flows properly. The problem with a retro-fit is that you will (at least) need to strip, sand, stain and refinish the entire stock after installing the parts and re-profiling the stock.
 

old ugly

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well the wood is a bit proud and one chip at the end of the tail.

I know I may end up refinishing it.

I was hoping for Dickert style patchbox and trim photos as I have searched the internet images and any photos there arnt close or clear enough. I'm only on a laptop no full screen. the photos on this forum come in nice and clear... I just don't know why.
old ugly
 

Black Hand

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well the wood is a bit proud and one chip at the end of the tail.

I know I may end up refinishing it.

I was hoping for Dickert style patchbox and trim photos as I have searched the internet images and any photos there arnt close or clear enough. I'm only on a laptop no full screen. the photos on this forum come in nice and clear... I just don't know why.
old ugly
Looking good.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...-34&sk=&cvid=F804CD7822684C8F8320AA8E0B580073
 
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could someone give me some nice photos of these items installed on their gun. and maybe a link to some sort of tutorial.

old ugly.

I'm not claiming to be any kind of Master, but I've received a number of compliments on some of my Flickr albums showing my gun builds. Here's one that shows step by step, including a Medina patchbox, the nosecap and thimbles, though I see you've successfully completed the entry thimble.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums/72157639906287386

If you double click on any picture, it makes it full size and you can read my build comments under the picture. This album covers the build of a Flint fullstock Hawken with a Medina Patchbox.

Here's a few pics of these items installed. Hope it helps.

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54ball

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http://www.aspenshadeltd.com/inventory_4rifles.html

Dickert is the second rifle down....

What you have is basically a unfinished kit with a coat of finish.

Now with that said, it's a functional and attractive piece much better than any factory type gun you can buy, as is, right now.... I know you put a lot of work into it when you assembled it 10 years ago.

You are going to have to do that much work and a lot more to get it where you want it to be. The work that needs to be done to your rifle; to make it a truly fine rifle, will be much more difficult and tedious than you did 10 years ago.

You need to develop some essential skills. The first being the "EYE" or eye for architecture. Some refer to this as their....Mind's Eye.
Simply put, the eye is knowing in your mind what shapes, what tricks, what thicknesses a fine longrifle truly is. You cannot transfer that from your head through your hands to the wood unless you truly know what it ought to be.
Since you do not have access to handle original guns you'll have to go by plans and photos. You have Track plans but you need to really get into them. See them instead of look at them. Study photographs. Lots of rifles are online and volumes of good quality books have been dedicated to this. Purchase other plans, those made from original rifles. Plenty are available. Know what you are seeing. Get out your modern guns, the rifle you have now, even a baseball bat and see how the light reflects from these surfaces and various angles. Take that knowledge and use it to interpret the photos. It can be very very tricky.
Read through Dave Person's posts on here! Look at his builds. (hopefully his photos exist after the forum re boot.)

Once you feel you have a good grasp of architecture, now comes the practical skill. Even though you know what it should be in your head...getting it to the wood is where practice and mechanical skill with good quality tools comes in. You'll have to develop this by doing.
There's shaping.....
There's inletting...
There's metal work....

Practice on scrap.
Practice sharpening your tools.
Get a chunck of hard wood about the size of the lock portion of your rifle.....draw the lock on it....now draw out and shape the lock panel.
Inlet a quarter into a block of wood.
The main thing is to practice and develop that mechanical skill.

I prefer to stab my inlets in. I use a small chisel on a pencil line. I can turn tighter radius's than the width of the chisel by torquing it as I go. The smaller the chisel the tighter I can turn. With this method you have a clean side and a waste side. The waste side is where the chisel was torqued in to. The clean side is the outside line that's clean. The waste will be removed.....The smaller (tiny) the chisel especially one radiused a bit on the tip edges will cut cleaner with really no waste side. These tiny chisels are good for carving. You'll have to make them or modify an existing tool. I roll the chisel and torque it at the same time. For inlets....I can get away with this use a small bench chisel.
For carving incised lines ...I'll have to make some small ones suitable for "clean stabbing in"
That's how I do it and the best I know how to describe it. You may find success another way. The thing is, is to do it by whatever means necessary and build your skill.

In my opinion your rifle will need a total reconstruction of architecture.......
Some suggestions....
Since you have a pre made cap....That will help define the nose and forestock.
You may want to show more of the side flat of the barrel.
You will definitely want to thin the for stock. (research and study how thin the upper ald lower forestocks are.
Those lock panels need to be refined.
The comb and wrist need to be refined.

Right now your rifle is about 50% there. The last 50% you want to do will be very very tedious. It's rewarding but it needs to be a slow and careful go....
 

old ugly

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Wow!!! thank you for the reply, that will help a lot.
I’m going for it.
When I got the parts over 10 years ago, I started building the gun. The stock looked ok, was supposed to be x- fancy maple. I did the inlets for the mechanics then started to slim down the forstock and found the ramrod Channel runs off to one side. I don’t know a fix for that so I left the forstock fat and gave up on the rest of the installation of hardware. Also after starting I found a crack by the barrel tang. So I got discouraged, the supplier said it wasn’t like that when shipped. I figured “well I guess it’s a poor boy style, put some stain and oil on it and went shooting.
So I guess what I’m saying is this is a good practice project. Just Making a silks ear out of a sow’s purse.
Thanks
Old ugly
 

old ugly

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couple small slips ad mistakes but I'm happy with it.
I modified the patch box bezel looks a bit more like the original dicker picture you gave me the link to. now I gotta practice some engraving and then give that a go.
thanks again for the images
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Hi,
You are doing very well. If I were you, I would take this opportunity to strip the stock and refinish it. I don't know what stain you used but it really has a muddy greenish tint almost like the old chromium trioxide stains. Consider getting ferric nitrate powder from the Science Company and dissolve in water. Paint that on and then blush the stain with a heat gun. It will bring out the curl in the wood much better and give you a pleasant reddish brown color like the guns shown below.
dave
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old ugly

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I'm probably going to refinish it, I never liked that crappy stain the guy sold me.
ill search the ferric nitrate method, I doo like the colors of those guns better.
thanks
 
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Hi,
I use simple wood scrapers. You have a fair amount of extra wood on your stock that can be thinned anyway. You can use cabinet scrapers, carpet knife blades, carving knives, or make uniquely shaped scrapers from old hacksaw blades. The pictures below show me using different scrapers to rework and refinish a Pedersoli brown Bess musket. Sandpaper then can be used to clean up.
dave
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old ugly

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Hi,
I use simple wood scrapers.

This is a lot of great info I’m really glad you are passing it on to me.
Kinda excited about the rifle again maybe I can get it looking half decent.
I am going to order the ferric nitrate and go with that method of finishing.
I see in another thread a discussion on different brands of premade products but I don’t think I can get them here. And if it’s as easy as adding distilled water to the ferric nitrate then all I need to know is a ratio.
Again, thanks for helping me out
Ou
 

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