Paper cartridges and caps

[snubnose57]

As I understand, paper cartridges were popular back in the day. but I have always wondered about the caps.
Was the military issued cappers? I have seen Colt cappers, but no original Remington cappers.
Or were there caps somehow enclosed in the boxes?
Just cannot imagine trying to use a tin of caps on a horse in action.
For civilians, this could really be an open ended question.

 

[hawkeye2]

It was common to put 7 caps in a packet of 6 cartridges. To the best of my knowledge the military did not use cappers. Anyone who slowed down enough to load on horseback probably didn't survive the experience. A Remington is almost impossible to cap with most cappers.

 

[M. De Land]

I doubt the typical Civil war cavalry trooper ever reloaded his pistols while engaged.
That would be the reason most of them used several pistols holstered in differing places.
The idea of a cavalry charge was to break up the cohesive effect of an infantry passing through and on out of range where they would reload and repeat the action.

 

[Many Klatch]

A friend of mine reenacts Union Cavalry. He carries 8 Remingtons stuffed in various holsters and saddle bags. Reloading is for back in camp.

 

[bangfxr]

Loading on horse back in not practical. I've seen 6 pistol cartridges issued with 7 caps and some had 8 caps. It depended on what company made the cartridges.As others stated I several cav guys and they carry between 6 to 10 pistols depending on who they are portraying.

 

[BillinOregon]

My great-grandfather, who served in the Third Wisconsin Cavalry in the border country, was issued one 1860 Colt, a carbine and a Model 1840 saber. According to his diaries, everybody hated saber practice.

 

[crockett]

snubnose- both existed and it depended on the manufacturer. Most of the Colt Manufactured combustible cartridge cases or "packets" that I have seen did not include the caps. The ammunition made by D.C. Sage usually had an extra chamber with caps. There were several other manufacturers and I'm not sure on whether they included caps. The Richmond Arsenal made ammunition for the CSA and used small cardboard boxes and the one I saw had no caps.

 

[Larry Akers]

Infantry issued cartridges were carried in the cartridge box and the caps were carried in a small leather pouch on the waist belt. Caps would be of the musket size.

 

[hawkeye2]

Musket cartridges and carbine cartridges were carried in leather cartridge boxes and both used musket caps which were carried on the belt in a cap box as you said. Revolvers used a cap like our #11 and these weren't kept in a cap box. Pistol cartridge boxes which were worn on the belt were issued however I'm not sure how extensively they were used. These were a simple leather box and revolver ammo was often kept in the saddlebags with the revolver(s) being loaded before going into battle.

 

[snubnose57]

Thanks everyone, good information.
I make my own paper cartridges, but always wondered about the caps. I may try to make a small paper tube, about cap size, and include them in my boxes just for fun.

 

[crockett]

As far as I have been able to find, the ONLY ammunition ever used in cap and ball pistols in the Civil War (for Federal troops) were combustible cartridges that came in small 6 round "packets". I have tried to find any flasks that would have been issued to those with revolvers if re-loading was from a flask. Instructions for flask loading occurred in army manuals but I haven't found any flasks.
I'm not sure on the numbers- Colt may have sold 4 million combustible rounds, D.C. Sage also 4 million, the others lesser amounts- but millions and millions of combustible cartridges for percussion revolvers.
Once again, this was for the military.

 

[snubnose57]

I was just curious if the boxes included caps, or how caps were handled back in the day. I have seen antique Colt cappers but I would guess they were more popular with civilians.

 

[crockett]

For me at least- another unknown but I think the military used cappers for revolvers HOWEVER just a guess. They could have just had a tin.
On the packets...Colt had a two piece wood box. There was a wire pull you yanked to rip apart the wrapping and the box came apart. D.C. Sage used a single wood block with a label over blind holes. There was a seventh hole for the caps. You pulled a string to rip open the label and dump out cartridges and caps.
There is actually lots of information and photos on the net- search combustible cartridges.
P.S. These wood boxes were called "packets" because Colt originally wrapped the rounds in heavy paper. The first rounds used very thin tin instead of paper for the case. The blast of the percussion cap was strong enough to rupture the tin and explode the powder. The tin however stayed in the chamber and after 5-6 rounds there was so much tin fouling that you could not fully seat another round. The end of the bullet stuck out so far you could not rotate the cylinder and had to pull off the barrel. Big mess. Colt used tin to create a waterproof cartridge- which was required by the military. He finally got the military to accept a waterproof package and switched to a paper case and wood box. The wood box was wrapped in paper and shellacked to waterproof the contents.

 

[Joe Zakas]

I have made paper cartridges from rolling papers and save them for windy days. Normally, I just go with loose powder. However, often on windy days there may be a slight rain mist. My damp fingers wet the cartridge paper. After reading the Colt tin to paper cartridge I was wondering, does anybody "waterproof" their cartridge papers and if so, how?
Just an idle question.
Joe Z

 

[hawkeye2]

If the military had issued cappers they would have been dug along with other Civil War relics and there would be specimens of used and very likely unissued cappers in existence today as well as mention in ordinance manuals etc.. That is not the case.

I had never given a thought to waterproofing revolver cartridges but I suspect anything done to waterproof them would interfere with ignition. Some of the packets were waterproofed by coating with wax.

 

[crockett]

That was my take on the cappers- none that I recall seeing.
On the waterproofing. I agree that you would likely interfere with the cartridge itself. BUT... in the interest of "bonding with the experience" years ago I found some very thin foil. It was used to wrap candy and was paper backed. I very carefully peeled off the paper part. Now a days the same stuff is plastic Mylar instead of tin/aluminum. Don't use that because the plastic will melt.
In any event I made some cases with this foil. I am guessing it was still thicker than Sam Colt's tin. Colt got his tin from a German manufacturer and it was the only tin that worked well.
So I tried them. I got about 30-40% ignition "AS IS". Just ram them in the chamber and fire the cap. The cap was strong enough to burst through and fire the round.
Colt said on his tin cases the chamber would be unloadable after 5-6 rounds. In my case after three rounds there was so much fouling that I could not seat the cartridge. This jammed rotation but it was a Colt so pulling off the barrel was easy enough.
Now back to your question. One of the manufacturers of the day- I think it was Johnston & Dow. One of their designs used sort of a Pyrodex pellet glued to the bullet and varnished- so the round itself was water proof.
The Army wanted a product that could be soaked underwater four hours and still fire. Half the time these Johnston & Dow cartridges passed the test but sometimes they didn't- still pretty good.
I asked a while back if anyone had messed around with the idea but no one chimed in.

 

[Zonie]

This is a quote from Samuel Colts pistol instructions which you folks may find interesting.

I only copied it down to the end of his discussion on loading his cartridges.

His mention of piercing the end of the Cartridge leads me to believe it is his foil cartridges that are being described.

_________________________

" DIRECTIONS FOR LOADING COLT'S PISTOLS.

First explode acap on each nipple to clear them from oil or dust, then draw back the hammer to the half-cock, which allows the
cylinder to be rotated; a charge of powder is then placed in one of the chambers, keeping the barrel up. and a ball with the pointed end upwards without wadding or patch is
put into the mouth of the chamber. turned under the rammer, and forced down with the lever below the surface of the cylinder, so that it cannot hinder its rotation
(care should be used in ramming down the ball not to shake the powder from the chamber, thereby reducing the charge).
This is repeated until all the chambers are loaded. Percussion-caps are then placed on the nipples on the right of the lock-frame, where, by drawing back the hammer in the full-cock
the arm is in condition for a discharge by pulling the trigger; a repetition of the same motion produces the like results with six shots without reloading.

It will be safe to use all the Powder the chambers will hold, when loading with the flask, leaving room for the Ball, whether the Powder is strong or weak. Fine grain Powder is the best. Soft lead must be used for the balls. The cylinder is not to be taken off when loaded. The hammer, when at full cock forms the sight by which aim is taken.
To carry the arm safely when loaded let down the hammer on one of the pins between each nipple, on the end of the cylinder.
The arm should be throughly cleaned and oiled after firing, partriculary the arbor-pin on which the cylinder turns.

DIRECTIONS FOR LOADING WITH COLT'S FOIL CARTRIDGE

Take the white case off the Cartridge, by holding the bullet end and tearing it down with the black tape. Place the Cartridge in the mouth of the chamber of the cylinder,
with the pointed end of the bullet uppermost, one at a time and turn them under the rammer, forcing them down with the lever below the surface of the cylinder so that they cannot hinder its rotation.
To ensure certainty of Ignition, it is advisable to puncture the end of the Cartridge, so that a small portion of gunpowder may escape into the chamber while loading the pistol...."

 

[snubnose57]

I use tea bags for my paper cartridges, they go off every time, with almost no residue left over.
I get cardboard boxes from Joannes. They are too tall, so I cut them down to approximate size. Print a label off the internet.
The drawback, is they open from the top, like a shoe box. not quite close to an original.
My Civil War replica revolver cartridge belt box holds 2 boxes, but too tight for a box of caps, or a capper. This I carry in the woods, and make them while watching the boob tube, just for fun.

 

[Grumpa]

"Fine grain Powder is the best."

Does this equate with 4Fg? Original metallic cartridges dating from the 1870s and 80s have been opened to reveal 4Fg. I have a pound of 4Fg that I would rather shoot off in my revolvers than in the pan of my flintlocks.

Also, was the foil consumed by combustion, or did it leave residue in the chambers?

Thanks, Zonie, for the informative post.

Richard/Grumpa

 

[Zonie]

"Fine grain Powder is the best."

Does this equate with 4Fg? Original metallic cartridges dating from the 1870s and 80s have been opened to reveal 4Fg. I have a pound of 4Fg that I would rather shoot off in my revolvers than in the pan of my flintlocks.

...

Richard/Grumpa

I don't know.

My "medium" is off on vacation for the holidays so trying to get her to contact ole' Samuel so I can ask him is out of the question.

Last I heard, she was going to see the latest Star Wars movie for the 15th time to see if she could figure out how to contact the star of the show to get some "vibrations", whatever that means. :rotf: