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P53 P58 Enfield target shooters here?

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Wondering if any here shoot the military three-band and two-band Enfields out to 800 yards, as they do in Great Britain.
Seems like some of our Aussie mates do -- Heelerau maybe?
Key to this discipline is being able to dope the wind with those crude military sights. Be fun to try it.
 
Bill, as we've often discussed, many of us over here have shot these guns, real and repro, at 600 yards, and the occasional 800, just for a laff in my case :redface: .

David Minshall, who, together with his wife, has held Commonwealth, national and international records shooting this calibre, will drop by and add his wealth of experiences, I'm sure.

My main problem at 600 yards was sorting out my body to accommodate the angle of the gun via the extreme angle of the sights. At 800 yards I was actually shooting at a clear demarcation on the backstop bank, about ten feet above the target frame.

Of course, issue sights are mandatory in the military match - vernier tang sights are a no-no.

tac
 
Terry, the wonderful thing about being beyond 60 is that every two or three years, having forgotten I asked a question like this, I can ask it again in perfect innocence ...

:redface:

That said, as of this afternoon, being strapped into my back brace and considering taking a hydrocodone for the pain, I am not sure I am up to shooting a BB gun from prone.
 
You've overstated my shooting record slightly! :) I have held MLAGB National record for .577 Enfield at 200 yards and still hold it for 50m offhand. I've also won MLAGB National Rifle Championship matches for Enfield including the 600 yard Championship. No Commonwealth or international...

MLAGB hold National Rifle Championship matches for Enfields at 200, 300, 500 and 600 yards. A club I am in also has an aggregate match comprising 15 shots at each distance, 600 & 800 yards. Shooting in these is prone, with military two-point sling permitted for support.

Most recent match was last month held by Nottinghamshire Rifle Association. Shooting for this was Enfield .577 military rifle fired on an 1861 square target: 1 sighting shot and 5 shots to count at each distance 200, 300 and 400 yards. All shooting was prone unsupported (i.e. no sling).

David
 
Apologies are due.

Anyhow, another poster on canadiangunnutz has just informed me that HE has 19X, and is going to let me know the correct number by email.

All this is moot, of course, if you are no longer interested in collecting serial numbers.

BTW, please read your PM.

Best.

tac
 
Both orignals and repros. are used and there is no distinction between the two - all compete in the same comp. I shoot an original.

In the MLAGB National Rifle Championships this year at 200, 300, 500 and 600 yards a reproduction rifle took bronze (3rd place) at 200 & 300 yards. All remaining medals (gold, silver, bronze) were taken with original rifles.

David
 
Thanks!

That’s fantastic that 100 plus year old guns out shoot modern reproductions. Or a sad statement concerning the quality repos.

Could you tell me a bit about the sport? Are folks wearing shooting coats and gloves? Are rifles stock or are they re-barreled, glass bedded with race tuned locks and triggers etc?
 
David,

Am I mistaken to presume the reproductions that ranked were REAL Parker Hale Enfields made in the UK and not the reproductions made with Italian barrels and/or locks?

Gus
 
BillinOregon said:
Gus, the latest Pedersoli reproductions should be considerably better than the other Italians, in my experience.

That's good news, because when I stopped participating in NSSA shoots, the Pedersoli's were not available yet.

Gus
 
You can easily watch it on youtube, and no, shooters do not dress up in the style of the middle/late 1800s. Apart from looking faintly ridiculous, you'd be extremely uncomfortable and giving away the distinct advantage of being able to wear modern clothing. Wet tweed and spats and a Derby will make you a miserable shooter, when all the others are wearing the latest bad-weather gear...

Rifles are NOT permitted to have glass bedding, or any modern appurtenance or modification that offers an decided advantage over somebody shooting an original. Traditional methods that combine waterproofing with 'easing' the barrel channel are permitted, as many reproductions have a slight manufacturing ridge that runs centrally down the whole length of the channel which needs to be removed. Se David Minshall's VERY useful article about shooting the P53 for details.

Naturally, telescopic sights and bipods are not permitted either.

tac
 
Sure, fill yer boots.

It's just the same as any other form of target rifle shooting, just that the guns are old, or look old.

Did you watch it on Youtube yet?

HC and PC are not things usually associated with muzzleloading target rifle shooting. There is, of course, no reason on earth why you should not dress up like a total Bertie Prune - this IS a free country, after all - but for sure you'll be the only one there on the line.

tac

PS - this IS from 1961, and things have moved on somehat...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3X9fomCcDY
 
OK, Thanks again!

I assumed it was not line or woods walk style shooting, but I was not sure if it was more like cowboy action shooting or formal target shooting.

As to you tube I don’t even know what it is.
 
It's formal target shooting.

Rifle ranges, with wind flags etc and known distances. Modern shooting jackets / gloves are permitted and used by many.

Rifles are original or 'in the spirit of the original', so no glass bedding. Only support is the military two point sling (single point slings are not permitted). No wrist rests or x-sticks.

Repros are almost exclusively Parker-Hale, which are relatively easy to track down in the UK.

The rifle most commonly used in MLAGB matches is the ”˜two band’ Enfield. The Parker-Hale Pattern 1858 Naval Rifle is popular, as are original versions of this or similar Short Rifles. The common feature is the 33 inch barrel with 1 in 48 inch twist rifling. The Pattern 1853 Rifle Musket is however seen on the ranges and can perform well. One attribute perhaps accounting for the popularity of the shorter rifle is the sights; the rearsight is placed four inches further away from the eye and this can enable the shooter to gain a clear picture of the sights.

Grease grooved Minie bullets are in general use. Some shooters have experimented with paper patched bullets and there have also been those that have made the hollow nosed bullets which William Metford had competition success with in the early 1860s. Paper cartridges don’t feature.

An increase in powder charge is generally made above that used at 100m/yd and to compensate for this some have modified base plugs on their bullet moulds to cast a thicker skirt on their Minie bullet.

Where the discipline really comes into its own is the ability to aim off to allow for wind. Sights are crude when compared to the match rifle, with just a simple slide for elevation and no windage adjustment. With the rainbow like trajectory of the typical 540-560 grain bullet, close attention to changing conditions is essential. Slight changes in head or tail winds and the bullet will drop short of or sail over the target. Point of aim may be several feet to the side of the target if the wind is strong; if one is lucky a clump of grass or other such feature in the butts may provide a point of reference!

David
 

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