Oversized Revolver Chambers

[rodwha]

In a pistol bullet that has no need to be as ballistic-ally clean as does a long range rifle bullet I would go with both deeper and wider in the lube groove. Say perhaps .050 deep and .100 long. If you have an example of a .44 Kieth bullet it would be a good design to copy with some mods.
This .44 Kieth bullets groove is .090 wide and .075 deep (.0375 per side). It's width at base measures .430 , weight is about 250 grains , length is .800 and meplat is .300. I've also thought a slight redesign of some .45 ACP lead bullets would work really well in our .44 percussion guns.
Shortened design mods on this bullet which is probably one of the very best ever developed for penetration and long range work would be good. The upper angled groove is for seating in the case mouth which could be deleted for percussion use.

I’d also never reduce my meplat that much. I want to punch as big of a hole as possible. I’ve been contemplating going possibly all the way out to .400” after reading a fellow’s account (he was creating bullets too while Keith was). But if I leave it at .375” or thereabouts I would be able to use the same ram (I intend to use epoxy to form the nose so it quits kissing their ugly faces. Plus it would reduce my weight and the forward weight.

 

[rodwha]

This is from Beartooth Bullets.

 

[rodwha]

In a percussion revolver bullet there's no need for lube grooves.

Haven’t seen a traditional revolver conical with any. But for range days I’d say they’re necessary.

One day I was casting up a bunch of my 170 grn shorties when a neighbor popped in and asked why we hadn’t been to the range yet in some time so I scooped a bunch up and ran off to the range. Those things shot like a BB gun on a windy day. Those had to have lube if you wanted them to go straight. Maybe I should try it with the other just to see what I see.

 

[M. De Land]

You could go with a bullet that has knurling impressed into it rather than lube grooves. The Kieth bullet design does not rely totally on the meplat for tissue disruption. It also uses the sharp shoulder at the base of the ogive in tandem with the meplat to cut a full caliber hole in the target. You can see this very well when shooting paper targets with this bullets. The holes are so clean they look like a punch made them. This is also why they are so stable while transitioning game animal bodies through bone, soft tissue and cartilage.
I killed a large black bear (about 400 lbs) a couple of years ago and this bullet worked just as Keith said it would going through the bears body/thorax ,side to side and front to back (two different shots on the same animal) like hot cheese. The first was from the front going out his back and just missing the spine. He came straight at my hunting pardner and I had to make a quick slap shot as he blew past me or he would have been on top of Chris. The second Kieth cut his wiring through the spine and went on out the other side. I call that my God shot as I couldn't make that same shot again in 200 try's.
First black I ever saw come for a human and that was my sixth bear kill but there is just no other way to read what happened.

 

[M. De Land]

Shooting out to 200 yards will generally tell the tale in bullet design stability. A good game bullet needs to stay on path once it gets inside the body cavity because if it tumbles or deflects when hitting bone or tough cartledge it won't penetrate as is needed on tough game.
The shoulder on a Kieth bullet was put there with this in mind along with cutting a full caliber hole.

 

[rodwha]

Shooting out to 200 yards will generally tell the tale in bullet design stability. A good game bullet needs to stay on path once it gets inside the body cavity because if it tumbles or deflects when hitting bone or tough cartledge it won't penetrate as is needed on tough game.
The shoulder on a Kieth bullet was put there with this in mind along with cutting a full caliber hole.

I’ve read that the full caliber shoulder actually doesn’t perform on game like it does the paper, this from the fellow who’s bullet has the huge meplat (he works/worked for a major ammo manufacturer), and it makes sense when viewed from the perspective of the meplat being the force upon the liquids in the body tissue that creates a cavitation, and high is what actually cuts the hole larger than caliber.

I remember your bear story and the pics you sent along too. Very crazy for a black bear (that part I didn’t recall). Maybe overwhelmed with the desire to add a few more pounds before it got too cold?

 

[rodwha]

Oh yeah, your God shot may well have been exactly that I’ve seen spectacular things that can only be counted as His hand, things that defy physics. Nothing can pull one from His hand, a very comforting thought.

 

[Bad Karma]

Does it self-align? I’d not fear doing more mods if I knew they were idiot proof.

About the time it’s made idiot proof, along comes a new improved idiot...

 

[rodwha]

About the time it’s made idiot proof, along comes a new improved idiot...

I’ve been known to be a very talented idiot at times, and the reason why I’ve not bought a reamer, though I keep thinking I should just break down and buy the Brownell’s hand reamer I was pointed to years ago. Come to find out it looks like my Ruger could stand to have a .453” reamer snuggle up on those chambers too while I’m at it. Only checked one but it was .452” just as the grooves.

 

[M. De Land]

I’ve read that the full caliber shoulder actually doesn’t perform on game like it does the paper, this from the fellow who’s bullet has the huge meplat (he works/worked for a major ammo manufacturer), and it makes sense when viewed from the perspective of the meplat being the force upon the liquids in the body tissue that creates a cavitation, and high is what actually cuts the hole larger than caliber.

I remember your bear story and the pics you sent along too. Very crazy for a black bear (that part I didn’t recall). Maybe overwhelmed with the desire to add a few more pounds before it got too cold?

All I can do is report what the bullet did on real game in my personal experience. I have also read the same testimony from folks who have used the bullet for 50 plus years on game all over the planet and can now add my testimony to theirs . It tends to drive deep and stay on trajectory path!
The cartridge was .44 mag, the alloy was water dropped wheel weights

 

[M. De Land]

I’ve been known to be a very talented idiot at times, and the reason why I’ve not bought a reamer, though I keep thinking I should just break down and buy the Brownell’s hand reamer I was pointed to years ago. Come to find out it looks like my Ruger could stand to have a .453” reamer snuggle up on those chambers too while I’m at it. Only checked one but it was .452” just as the grooves.

The bear had my caribou on his mind as he winded the gut pile we threw in the river as we cut it up. He could have been in the brush in two bounds to his right if he was trying to escape but he chose to cover the 21 yards between us and him to get the meat. The shot went through his chest and out his back but not hitting any bone didn't even knock him down it just put him in high gear straight at Chris who was knealing in the rocks about ten feet away from me. I was in a supine position beside my caribou carcass waiting for him to come out of the grass on the river bank for a clear shot with the pistol braced against my raise knee. As soon as he cleared the grass he saw us and stopped and that is when I let him have it in the chest. By the time the gun came down out of recoil he had covered the 21 yards and was almost beside me. I was off to the side on a line between the bear and Chris next to the river and the caribou. I don't think he ever noticed me just Chris kneeling down. I had just time enough to make a quick slap shot at a blurr as he went by. The slug cut his wiring and he folded up immediately dropping like a sash weight about 4-6 ft from Chris. Had I missed the spine we would have had a mess way back in the wilderness like that with the potential of two old guys getting chewed up a bit or worse.
When folks say a bear is fast they ain't stretching the truth because it has to been experienced to be believed !
I don't know if the ROA would have saved the day but it sure would have been better than a sharp stick especially with some of your blunt nose conicals.

 

[nkbj]

I tested semi-wadcutters, wadcutters, round noses and round flat noses using one powder charge, shooting into paper that had been soaked so long that the binder gelled.
With the same bullet weight and powder charge the semi-wadcutter displayed twice the penetration of the wadcutter.
Perhaps somewhere in between is as best it gets.

 

[M. De Land]

Here we are just before pushing off on on trip out. We still had about seven hours of floating to get back to the truck. With two caribou antlers, meat and the big black bear hide and meat we barely had room for us and our gear in a 14 foot NRS Scout raft.
I rendered about 30 pounds of bear fat to make bear oil. The meat from these inland bears is better than the caribou and that is saying a lot as I really like caribou. I use the oil for patch and bullet lube and have cooked with it as well. It also is good medicine for burns etc.
You can click on the picture to enlarge if wanted.

 

[nkbj]

Playing around with a set of blocks and an adjustable plug from another,

these are 250 grain plain base wadcutters swaged to slip into the Pietta .446/.447 chambers.
Suppose they might work with wads saturated with melted lube.

 

[M. De Land]

They should fly straight to about 50 yards but I would expect them to tumble much past that range. If you had just a bit of truncate (taper) from mid bullet to the meplat they would probably be stable right on out to what ever.
Playing around with a set of blocks and an adjustable plug from another,

these are 250 grain plain base wadcutters swaged to slip into the Pietta .446/.447 chambers.
Suppose they might work with wads saturated with melted lube.