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tenngun

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Politics has always been a blood sport.
It was in the UKs and Frances interest to support the south, but politically they couldn’t be made to look like they supported slavery. Lincoln had to present the war as antislavery, but at the same time a majority of the north didn’t back Lincoln on slavery.
Lincoln had to treat the war domestically as a war to prevent dissolution of the Union. While at the same time he had to keep the backing of Pennsylvania and New England. While juggling there he had cabinet full of those that didn’t think this country ner-do-well lawyer was fit to be be president .
The ‘Cause’ was easy to explain to the country boy the south asked to fight. Simply defending their home from an invader bent on disenfranchising them from their rights. The ‘Cause’ for the north to fight for was more tenuous, Preserve the Union.
Lincoln had to dance on a knifes edge... in wet moccasins
The more his success the more he could make the people of the north happy, but the more he fed southern rhetoric. And at the same time England and France was ready for an excuse.
While I would argue all day Lincoln was constitutionally in the wrong I have to admire his political talent.
We talk about great generals while this country lawyer with zilch for political experience played the game with an expertise very few politicians ever had.
 

Diver63csa

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Politics has always been a blood sport.
It was in the UKs and Frances interest to support the south, but politically they couldn’t be made to look like they supported slavery. Lincoln had to present the war as antislavery, but at the same time a majority of the north didn’t back Lincoln on slavery.
Lincoln had to treat the war domestically as a war to prevent dissolution of the Union. While at the same time he had to keep the backing of Pennsylvania and New England. While juggling there he had cabinet full of those that didn’t think this country ner-do-well lawyer was fit to be be president .
The ‘Cause’ was easy to explain to the country boy the south asked to fight. Simply defending their home from an invader bent on disenfranchising them from their rights. The ‘Cause’ for the north to fight for was more tenuous, Preserve the Union.
Lincoln had to dance on a knifes edge... in wet moccasins
The more his success the more he could make the people of the north happy, but the more he fed southern rhetoric. And at the same time England and France was ready for an excuse.
While I would argue all day Lincoln was constitutionally in the wrong I have to admire his political talent.
We talk about great generals while this country lawyer with zilch for political experience played the game with an expertise very few politicians ever had.
while this is true Lincoln was no friend of the negro. He wanted to broker a deal with the slave holders and Congress to payoff the slave holders over 10 years and ship the slaves back to Africa. Congress refused and that lead to 650k casualties and millions of dollars in debt. But in the end Lincoln's war crimes for upsurping the rights of Americans in pursuit of his politcal goals is the most overlooked achievement of Lincoln. He did not free the slaves, Congress did and they could've avoided that war.
 

tenngun

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I agree, but a discussion of that spends off in to a thousand pages, name calling and personal attacks followed by Zoni closing the thread.
Often we hear of these grand multi generational dark organizations bent on setting up an oligarchy of some sort, Masons, illuminates Skull and Bones ect. The fact is planning any thing more then a year or two in advance is pretty much a political impossibility. Politicians operate in the dark most of the time, moving chess pieces blindly. No one North or south had any idea what monster they had loosed. And after lose what to do about him.
 
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kelljp

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Look up Lincoln's proposed 13th amendment in April 1861, which recognize the right of states to allow slaveholders to retain their property
 

nit wit

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My Grandmothers people came to Broad Bay Colony in Maine in 1742. They came from Germany near the Black Forest. They arrived in November and survived in a bark shelter. Waldo swindled them and sold them someone else's land, so they paid for it again, many of the others sailed for the Carolina's.
They were a hearty bunch and married local Scottish lasses. How could I possibly be stubborn!
Nit Wit
 

SB57

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Like many others, I had numerous ancestors who fought in the Civil War, the Mexican War, War of 1812, and the Revolution. All I can do is admire them for their dedication to whatever circumstances compelled them to leave their homes and fight for what they believed in (as far as I can tell it was always love of country or love of state - nothing else) and to endure the hardships that followed. I marvel at the anecdotes I have been able to gather when doing family research - a great great grandfather wounded on Oak Hill at Gettysburg on Day 1, a great uncle killed in the Wheatfield at Gettysburg, another great grandfather who fought at Petersburg then captured and imprisoned in Pt. Lookout MD, and yet another distant grandfather who was a cannoneer on the Brig Niagara at the Battle of Lake Erie in 1813 and later fought in the Mexican War. Hard to imagine going through what they all must have gone through. I hope history doesn't erase these efforts regardless of debates about what is right and wrong today.
 

kelljp

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My GG Uncle was in The Ny Volunteers...Simple as that. I cannot possibly think through his eyes as he was long gone before me. I like most am proud of the lineage connected to him but it has to stop there. In these modern times they ALL must be remembered for their sacrifices...on both sides right wrong or indifferent. Regardless of what they believed in. When I move South I am certainly not going to bring any modern day beliefs with me as far as modern day Politics and what goes with it. All I know under current circumstances is that everything is under fire now...each and every one of us. The smart ones ignore what happened 157 years ago and concentrate whats before our eyes....best SM
Sound thinking, my Great-great grandfather was killed on Oct 3rd 1864 fighting with the 37rh NC company B defending Richmond at Petersburg and is buried at Hollywood cemetery with 18000 loyal southerners. That being said the past is behind us, we need to move on.
 

kelljp

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Lincoln's failed attempt to unite the Union citizenry and soldiers backfired with the emancipation proclamation that freed slaves only in Confederate occupied states. It did nothing to Union occupied Confederate states or areas. He had to appease the abolitionist to maintain support for the war he had started. In the end no slaves were freed. When the Union army controlled New Orleans, this slaves remained enslaved. When the Union army savaged the south those slaves got away but were abused by the US Army.
I wonder why the emancipation proclamation is proclaimed as a humanitarian act for another race when on December 27 President Lincoln had thirty-eight Indians ordered for execution, at Mankato, at 10 a.m.
 
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The emancipation proclamation was nothing more than a order issued in hopes of drawing more negro men to the ranks of the union. And a political endeavor to bolster the republic.
 

LME

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Politics has always been a blood sport.
It was in the UKs and Frances interest to support the south, but politically they couldn’t be made to look like they supported slavery. Lincoln had to present the war as antislavery, but at the same time a majority of the north didn’t back Lincoln on slavery.
Lincoln had to treat the war domestically as a war to prevent dissolution of the Union. While at the same time he had to keep the backing of Pennsylvania and New England. While juggling there he had cabinet full of those that didn’t think this country ner-do-well lawyer was fit to be be president .
The ‘Cause’ was easy to explain to the country boy the south asked to fight. Simply defending their home from an invader bent on disenfranchising them from their rights. The ‘Cause’ for the north to fight for was more tenuous, Preserve the Union.
Lincoln had to dance on a knifes edge... in wet moccasins
The more his success the more he could make the people of the north happy, but the more he fed southern rhetoric. And at the same time England and France was ready for an excuse.
While I would argue all day Lincoln was constitutionally in the wrong I have to admire his political talent.
We talk about great generals while this country lawyer with zilch for political experience played the game with an expertise very few politicians ever had.
You nailed it! Your explaination of how Lincoln handled this situation Is about as close as one can get to the truth. I would only add that northern shipping magnates were scared that the south ,having three deep ports to ship from could cut them out of their cash cow and ship their product over seas themselves. This was more important to the north than the slave issue.
 

Sam squanch

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The story I was told by my uncles( dad never talked much) was that their grandfather lost a leg at Shiloh,fighting for the union. Ohio infantry, I think. Later, at the home place, he surprised and captured 2 rebel raiders. ( probably just lost) made them dig their own graves and shot them. With one leg gone. People were tough back then.
 

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